Rebecca Gunter 0:00
Gill Moakes 0:01
Rebecca Gunter 0:02
Gilly Moakes. I'm taking this podcast right back over a second time. I loved the outcome from our first switcheroo. And I have more burning questions for you that I feel I should not be the only one to have the privilege of peeking inside the Moakes method of peeking inside the Moakes brain peeking behind the curtain darling. And going deep on something you and I have very different opinions on. And that is the professional social media platform known as LinkedIn.
Gill Moakes 0:49
Welcome, welcome to the heads together Podcast. I'm Gill Moakes. And I am obsessed with cutting through the noise when it comes to growing your business each week via intimate coaching conversations and inspirational stories. I share what it really takes to get the results you want, in a way that feels right to you. I am all about attracting higher ticket opportunities, building authentic relationships, and creating the abundant full fat version of your dream business. I mean, how many of us have even away creating a light version of what we really want? The thing is, I honestly believe when you're outstanding at what you do, there is no limit to what you can achieve. So are you ready to put our heads together and make it happen? Let's go
Gill Moakes 1:52
LinkedIn love it or hate.
Rebecca Gunter 1:56
There's no real in between? Well, I take that back. I think it's the in between love it and hate it. People who are producing the content that makes the people hate it hate it. Meaning.
Gill Moakes 2:12
Oh, okay, that's good. That's good. I get exactly what you mean from that.
Rebecca Gunter 2:18
It is the mediocre uninspired. I'm just here on LinkedIn, because that's a box everyone tells me I should check. So let me just post something that is moderately interesting, and then collect comments. And then I swim amongst those mediocre cup sandwiches, who's swimming with club sandwiches, that would be bad wood on my little raft, and an extra mayonnaise. Pass a pickles who is meandering along in LinkedIn and thinks this is the most boring drivel I have ever seen in my life and it just feels like it just feels like corporate corporate drivel on repeat in an echo chamber with the same man over and over again, the same anaemic comments and what infuriates me, is the same lack of interest that the original poster has on engaging in the comments in any kind of way. Yeah, which in my opinion, is where the magic happens. Yeah, the conversations in the comments. So it's just kind of poison rain for LinkedIn, and I avoid it like a dentist appointment. No matter how well intentioned, I am about being good on there, I'm using air quotes being good on LinkedIn. I just hate it. And I share that with you. You are like a guest because LinkedIn is your new baby. So help me fall in love helped me fall in love.
Gill Moakes 4:12
Of all the social media children. LinkedIn is my favourite child. Facebook is like the black sheep child that I've had to ask to leave home, because I've had enough of them. And Instagram is like the neglected child to boast on at the moment. So I realised that I do have a little bit of a love hate relationship with all social media platforms. So so from that perspective, LinkedIn is my favourite child at the moment. But here's the thing. And I think to your point that you just you're scrolling and it's drivel and you need to take some control and take some responsibility for your feed. Clean it up. You need to unfollow there is an unfollow button. And just like on, I guess Facebook, I think you can do this. You can stay connected with someone, but you can unfollow. And I do this all the time. If it's something that is just irritating me, it's interrupting my flow when it comes to digesting really interesting content on LinkedIn, which is what I do now, because I am so intentionally curating my own feed. And there's a few ways you can do that. Number one, hit that unfollow button regularly, all the time, clean up that damn feed, and then start following people, not just people, you think of potential clients. And I know you don't do that. So this isn't necessarily advice for you at all.
Rebecca Gunter 5:52
I don't pay attention to anybody on there, right?
Gill Moakes 5:54
Right, exactly. But what I do see sometimes is that people go all in on identifying their ideal clients on LinkedIn. And therefore their feed is full of potential clients who aren't always posting the most interesting stuff, necessarily. So I want you to think about like this three different kinds of people that you should be following on LinkedIn. Some of them will be potential clients for you. Some of them will be your peers. So this is where you've developed those, what we always talk about cherry pick partnerships, and joint adventures. That's where those develop. So by, you know, really kind of collaboration over competition, start connecting with your peers, don't be so terrified that they're going to on Earth, who you're and again, I'm not directing this to you. This is to listeners. I'm getting on a high horse now get very passionate, the Italian the arms are coming out and flailing everywhere. So I'm glad we're not actually videoing this, like going all over the place. I look like a muppet. So yeah, absolutely. Start really, genuinely building relationships with peers on LinkedIn, people who are in the same space as you learn from them, teach them. And then the third pillar is that thought leadership bucket. So this is where your this is where you're spreading a bit outside of your industry, perhaps. And you're maybe starting to think about, okay, what things do I actually find, simply interested in that I want to be reading about, and who are the voices in those arenas that I'm going to want to hit the bell on their profile. So I get notified every time they post some thing I've got, I think there's, there's a good few people now that I have hit that little bell, some people probably don't know about this still on, when you visit someone's profile, there's a little bell on their profile. And if you toggle that on, it means you will get notified with a message every time they post something. Also, if you're using LinkedIn for business, and you don't have that toggled on, for every single one of your clients, you are doing yourself a disservice and your clients a disservice. Because you should be, we should always be supporting our clients in whatever way we can. And one of those ways is to be commenting thoughtfully on LinkedIn posts. So I've gone off on a bit of a rant here, but that's my, my answer to your question of why you hate LinkedIn. Is because you're, you haven't cleaned up your feed. And that's three ways to do it.
Rebecca Gunter 8:49
This is gobsmacking information. And
Gill Moakes 8:54
I now need to breathe.
Rebecca Gunter 8:57
I'll bet take a drink. Take a drink of water or champagne. Whatever you have. I always drink champagne when I'm recording tea hot on your side. I saw mine. Don't ask me. Don't ask me.
Gill Moakes 9:08
Don't get me started again on that. Okay, Tony. Got it with two barrels on that one.
Rebecca Gunter 9:14
This just goes to show you how your own personal baggage can show up in business. Because it never occurred to me as a recovering people pleaser that I could curate my own feed on LinkedIn. And I was just accepting crappy club sandwiches. And then being mad about it. I had no idea. I had any agency in the way that LinkedIn affected me emotionally. I just accepted the shit sandwich and then was like, Oh, this sandwich was gross. Yeah, so you're blowing me away with that number one, two, I did not know about this darling little bell, what an excellent, excellent pro tip. Yeah
Gill Moakes 10:12
It hasn't been around for too long. And what I'm noticing a lot of creators on LinkedIn doing now is that they are there kind of have a little cut and paste, bit a bit like an email signature at the bottom of a post. So honestly, since I create curated my feed really thoroughly to just show me interesting stuff, it's so much more enjoyable. And I'm noticing a lot of creators have this little email signature on the bottom of their posts. And it has things like if you enjoy what I'm writing about, hit the bell in my profile, then you'll get notified. So again, it's quite a new thing. So it's worth. Now you and our listeners know about it, start doing that, start doing that at the bottom of a post, if you like what you're hearing, sorry, if you like what you're reading, hit the bell. And then you'll get notified of all my posts. And also, I'm noticing people putting little snippets there of perhaps, if you want to book a call with me, there'll be a link in the comments below. You know, they're they're putting their little calls to action in a small piece of sign off at the bottom of their posts, which I quite like.
Rebecca Gunter 11:25
Well, I do that for a blog post. Yeah, yeah, I do that for a blog post all the time.
Gill Moakes 11:32
And just a quick one on for LinkedIn. Though, to point out as well. Don't ever put a link in your post algorithm will batter you always put it in the first comment.
Rebecca Gunter 11:41
I don't want to be battered. Speaking about speaking of battering. Let's, let's pause this recording while my cat continues to to get crap in the range of the microphone and scraping it all the cat litter. Good. So
Gill Moakes 11:57
Good lord let's hang tight on that one.
Rebecca Gunter 12:01
Hang tight audio people or Gill talks while I muted, okay,
Gill Moakes 12:05
I'm just going to talk for a minute while she's muted, because I just want to share something else really quickly as well. In terms of other things to not do to avoid the algorithm battery, you and this is something I only found out the other day. And it makes so much sense to me for a couple of experiences I've had and this is it. Whenever you write a post, check it, double check it and triple check it, because if you hit post, and then go back in and edit it, it will not get shown to your audience edited posts completely and utterly bomb. And that has happened to me and I couldn't understand it, it was a post that I really thought would get normal amount of traction, and literally not even a view. And so editing a post is the kiss of death. So you know if there's a typo in it, leave it, putting them using comment in the first comment saying I've deliberately not edited this so that the algorithm doesn't matter me, or just ignore it.
Rebecca Gunter 13:12
I do love that fourth wall. I love that fourth wall of like, acknowledging that the algorithm is almost a character in the LinkedIn play. Yes, I see that a lot on mobile, they'll talk about the algorithm as if it's a Yeah, as if it's a real kind of living breathe. And I guess in a way it is just this kind of very proactive agent that is at play in the entire ecosystem all the time.
Gill Moakes 13:46
And of course, we all have a love hate relationship with the algorithm as well because we hate it when it works against us by not showing our posts to the people who want we want to see them or by you know, just one time we showed a remote tiny bit of interest in I don't know, car washing and suddenly we're seeing God damn hat knows how many posts about that. But then we love it when it works in our favour and talking about curating that feed again. The algorithms really clever I am now starting to see so many more new interesting voices that I really want to follow and hear from in my feed when it works in our favour. We love it. Love it. I can't get my words out today. I really should be called with my teeth in Oh God can I just say that was a joke, because I've just realised that Rebecca is always teasing me about my bloody stupid British tea. So
Rebecca Gunter 14:50
It's because I love them. I'm dipping their brains in the inkwell
Gill Moakes 14:54
Just love them.
Rebecca Gunter 14:57
What is that hard candy? Oh, and that was a marshmallow.
Gill Moakes 15:03
She teases me mercilessly on this.
Rebecca Gunter 15:07
I need you to be the most British person ever. I know all the time. I know all the time. I'm always romantically thinking about your birthday boiled dinner that drove your parents and your family crazy. Yeah, boiled dinner is the most British thing ever lived.
Gill Moakes 15:25
Boiled potatoes, boiled mince and boiled peas. Who doesn't want that for their birthday dinner when they're a child. I used to love it.
Rebecca Gunter 15:34
I'm for boiled minge if you know what I'm saying.
Gill Moakes 15:38
Linah, edit that out immediatley.
Rebecca Gunter 15:40
No, Linah keep it in.
Gill Moakes 15:43
I'm paying your invoice, edit that out.
Rebecca Gunter 15:48
Okay, I don't want to regret I don't want to regret, I really want to go down a rabbit hole with you with this curated feed and creators who are riding the wave of the algorithm, because I'm seeing something fresh air that I see somewhere else I'd like to talk about. But before I do, I really want to acknowledge something you said. That's so important, I think to business development way more important than any paid Facebook ad you'll ever have. Which is amplifying your clients work and being aware of your clients work and sharing it. It's not really so much about you know, that's the right thing to do as much as it makes the client feel so valued. Which is a huge win win when you're in the relationship business. And in addition to that, why are withholding this from our own audience? It's almost being stingy with something that's very, very good. I write emails for our client on leadership development. And I have another client, I keep thinking, you know, who would love this information? You know, who would really want to subscribe to this list? Is this other client? I have something Oh, okay, well, I've probably should just let them know that this mailing list exists. But in your paradigm, you are taking that Wayne to the next level, because I've truthfully, still haven't made that connection between those two people. And so the client who can use that information is missing out and the client who's producing that information is missing out on a interested person. So because I'm the single point of failure, everybody loses. But by you're just best practice, the client feels valued, your audience gets this really cool work as your clients are very awesome. So why not? Why not share what they're doing amongst that. And I think your attitude of like, what will make the client you know, what will value and honour the client, it is, including them as a golden thread in my own curated content is the highest compliment I can give them. So let us do it. I love that. And I just wanted to bring that back around before it faded out into the podcast, either.
Gill Moakes 18:15
And I'm glad you did and I think it also it brings our attention back to that bigger piece where it comes when it comes to LinkedIn. And that is that LinkedIn isn't a social media challenge channel. It really is genuinely, as a social networking channel.
Rebecca Gunter 18:36
Gill Moakes 18:37
Oh, okay. That'll be an interesting conversation to have then right. Okay, so that's good. I love it when we disagree. Tell me why you disagree.
Rebecca Gunter 18:47
Because LinkedIn has been for the last like six or seven years on track to become the world's largest digital publishing platform. So I think it's a publisher, and creators participate in that publishing experience I am that's a dumb way of saying but then careers are part of that is a publishing platform, like medium, which, by the way, are owned by the same people.
Gill Moakes 19:19
That's really interesting. And it is definitely going that way. I'm seeing that now. And particularly the kind of content that I like to see in my feed is much more of the long form content, much more storytelling, you know, much less salesy than perhaps it would be on, you know, Facebook or Instagram, that kind of thing. But for me, is still very much about building relationship with those creators. And I think you just.
Rebecca Gunter 19:52
You just brought up my gun. Sorry. Sorry. You just brought up my favourite favourite thing right now, which is not being salesy, not writing content for sales. Here's why. One who wants to be sold to 24 hours a day? Seven we already are, I don't need to make an argument for how much stimuli we get and people competing for our eyeballs to this audience. But it's come to the point where, speaking of a curated feed my inbox in my email, I do not know that if I'm an email I'm getting from people on all across the board is going to be a sales pitch, or is them really trying to talk to me. So over time, when I'm sold day, after day after day, where every story leads to a pitch for something, every, you know, remember the time when we discovered that Nutella is the world's greatest sandwich spread? Well, that reminds me of how accounting can be for you, or business, that kind of storytelling, then always, like, I'm just scrolling, what's the job? What's the pitch. So if someone wanted to talk to me directly, I am missing that message, because I do no longer believe that what's in my inbox isn't a pitch.
Gill Moakes 21:19
That's so so, so true. And this is where things always get out of balance. And the real skill when it comes to marketing yourself and your business, is knowing how to use all of these tactics, calls to action, storytelling, really sharing other people's content, sharing an article that someone else might find interesting, there's lots of different content that you can put out there into the world. And I think the absolute skill of it is finding the right balance so that you're not overdoing any one of those things. Because then we all get world weary of them, don't worry, we will get if it's if every single post you put out is a very long story that has an personal vulnerability element to it, you know, and it's that over and over every day, that's too much that's out of balance.
Rebecca Gunter 22:23
And they're barely vulnerable stories. It's a formula. It's like, you know, I was out buying cookies with my four year old the other day. And we were in line at the checkout and the gentleman in front of us. And it reminded me of how life coaching can really make a difference. It's always this, it's not vulnerable. It's somebody sitting down with a pen and paper being like, what story can I tell today, that will encourage someone a little bit further down the customer journey into buying, which is what we're told to do. From every marketing guru everywhere. Every book you read, everything is like, tell stories to drive people through the customer journey until they land pleasantly in your client basket, and you can love them forever. But the end result is that it's losing its effectiveness like a vaccine that no longer problems seems to work.
Gill Moakes 23:22
It loses effectiveness. It isn't that that formula isn't sometimes a perfect formula for a great story to be told. Sometimes that is such a great formula. I was doing this, I noticed that and it reminded me of this. Sometimes that's a great formula. The problem is that people are just taking that and using it like a mould. They're literally pouring their observation into the top of the funnel, observation insight. Story, you know, and it's, it's just too much, it's too much.
Rebecca Gunter 24:02
How to how to people break out of that hamster wheel of should I should post on LinkedIn, it should be a story. Let me take this formula. Now. I'm going to put it out there. Well, that's what everyone else is doing. And that's what people are telling me works. So I'm going to continue doing it that way. And then the end result is as soon as that my audience sees my name, in their DMS on their feed in their inbox. It's a scroll past because you've lost the real rapport. That can happen when relationship marketing isn't about the sale.
Gill Moakes 24:48
Yeah, yeah. So so that's a great question. And the answer that I have for that, is that you don't fall Follow a rigid posting schedule. I think that is the kiss of death to interesting, authentic content. I think you post when you have something interesting to say. And that doesn't mean that that's a cop out. So that doesn't mean that okay, so I haven't thought of anything interesting to say. So I haven't posted for a month, what you do is you make sure you've got something interesting to say by reading more of LinkedIn posts. So you don't just go silent. You go in, interact on other people's interesting content that you've carefully curated into your feed. You start commenting on that. You said earlier on the interesting stuff happens in the comments, start the interesting stuff off in the comments. And as you have those conversations, ideas will come. Another thing that I do is I have an Evernote thing that I just shove ideas in for posts. I love Evernote. love Evernote, I know it's an oldie but a goodie, but I love it. And just ideas, start habits start building up a library of ideas. And sometimes my ideas are like one sentence. And sometimes they're like an entire post gets written out ready to go at some point. So start doing that. But don't post when you've got nothing to say don't post when you are having to sit there like you say with your pen thinking of your story formula, and thinking oh, god, okay, well, I know what the insight is that I want to share. So now I just need to reverse engineer, a completely an utterly made up story of how this has just come to me in a flash, you know.
Rebecca Gunter 26:43
Or a real story. I mean, it does happen in a while.
Gill Moakes 26:47
Often they are real stories. Yeah, absolutely. But the problem is, it's happening so much. We can't always tell the difference now. Sometimes it's like it's so formulaic that that we are losing sight a little bit of what's the real story, what's not a real story? Is this just a marketing tactic? What's my okay?
Rebecca Gunter 27:10
You right there just described my entire on we about LinkedIn, what you just said is the reason I don't like to go into that pool. And I hear you that if I'm just walking around the side of the pool, complaining about the sandwiches there, and not getting in and finding the cool people and getting that swimming in that content stream and sharing what they're doing and feeling the vibe. But there isn't in authenticity that really is distasteful to me. Lately, I've been on LinkedIn for like, I don't know, I would say a decade. And then my profile got very, very good, because I started making them over for other people as a copywriter. So I had to learn what makes a good profile, understand where to put content and redid my own. Like, I really would be very hard to throw bricks on my profile except for the fact that it's extremely inactive. But from a cosmetic perspective, I'm there. And I have never ever, ever, ever one time gotten a lead or a job or business off of LinkedIn. I hear people say all the time like oh, yeah, like LinkedIn is one of my best referral sources and I make so many good connections there. But it all feels fucking fake to me. And I don't trust anybody. So you articulated it. My DMS are absolutely stuffed to the gills with nothing but connect first connection automated. I'm looking forward to learning more about your business. Hey, Rebecca, I wanted to remind you for the third time about our seminar on how, you know, outsourcing your copywriting to our company can double your business. Bitch, I'm a copywriter. Look at my profile like it's all that.
Gill Moakes 29:05
That is infuriating. Yeah, I have to say I'm, I'm going to harp on about it until you do it. Since I've started really being intentional about who I connect with and about curating that feed unfollowing the people I don't want to hear from I get way less spammy DMs now, way less. So.
Rebecca Gunter 29:29
Do you get unspammy ones.
Gill Moakes 29:34
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And so you
Rebecca Gunter 29:38
Tell me, give me an example of somebody who you didn't know who reached out to you on LinkedIn. What they said to catch your attention because again, I'm like ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore and what value the relationship came to fruition that really.
Gill Moakes 29:57
I am literally the most narcissistic person in the world because quite often it'll get grabbed my attention when someone says, Hey, Gill just read what you wrote about x.
Rebecca Gunter 30:10
That's why we do it
Gill Moakes 30:11
That works on me, that works on me.
Rebecca Gunter 30:14
Don't get it twisted.
Gill Moakes 30:16
That's absolutely right. Yeah, often, you know, that will grab my attention. And that's when I will pursue the conversation. But can I tell you one thing I do do. And that is that I do make it clear straight away that I'm not the sort of person that necessarily drops everything to reply straight away. This is where I think sometimes we go wrong. People will send out a fairly innocuous Hey, just wanted to you know, I'm trying to make more connection with my, my network on LinkedIn. Right? And, but the thing is, there's nothing wrong with that message. That's really, that could be a genuine message. That could be a genuine, I want to tell you what I do. And I also want to hear what you do. Or that could be a genuine, I thought it was really interesting when you wrote about this, that and the other. The problem is, we don't like people shouting through our letterbox. To get our attention. What we want people to do is drop the letter through, leave it on the mat, so that we can pick it up and read it when we're ready. But what happens often, is that someone drops the letter to onto the mat opens the letterbox and shouts I've just dropped on your mat. Have you read it yet? Why haven't you read it yet? Are you? Hello? Are you there? That That drives me crazy.
Rebecca Gunter 31:43
Are you talking about when someone when you someone makes a request a connection request and you accept it and then within 2.5 nanoseconds, the auto email triggers to see about your business, etc. And you're saying Slow your roll. Make your connection. Pay attention to what they're writing about or talking about if it's of interest to you.
Gill Moakes 32:07
If they invest.
Rebecca Gunter 32:10
Then send that DM.
Gill Moakes 32:12
That's it. Exactly. Yeah,
Rebecca Gunter 32:14
I have a confession. I've just realised that I've just realised I'm like codependent on a system of boring ass bullshit. That can be LinkedIn. But I actually have some agency. And I'm gonna really admit that I've been a hypocrite. My biggest pushback on like, first of all, I write about LinkedIn, and give people advice about LinkedIn. Are you
Gill Moakes 32:45
You write LinkedIn profiles.
Rebecca Gunter 32:49
They are absolutely compelling. And I champion creative writing in LinkedIn all the time. LinkedIn doesn't have to be boring. Let's be creative. You guys, I have a fully realised fictional persona for an octopus, just to show people LinkedIn can be fun. Yes, you have a whole origin of that adorable little character Octo Philia, you can connect with her. And I will forget to look at her profile. And so you'll never your invitation will be pending, because that's how unengaged I am. So I'm a hypocrite. Because I champion creative writing on LinkedIn when I'm not on LinkedIn, but I don't do it at all myself. So I'm codependent on the the boring salesy side of LinkedIn. And I'm a hypocrite, because I champion something I don't do. But you've changed my mind about why it's worth coming to. Coming to the heads together audience with my true confession and coming away a changed woman.
Gill Moakes 33:52
I just want to kind of hold up a bit of a paradigm shift here for you. Think about the people think about how compelling your writing is. You're an amazing writer. I mean, you know, that's your thing.
Rebecca Gunter 34:03
Thank you, darling. Thank you, darling. Right.
Gill Moakes 34:06
So if I'm saying that I follow this handful of what I consider to be great writers, thought leaders in this in the areas that I'm interested in, peers are the business coaches, who I really admire and you know, love collaborating with and talking to potential clients, all of those people who I want to be hitting that bell on my profile, and following everything that I write. You have an amazing opportunity to have people holding you up as a thought leader in your industry, because that's what you are already. I just feel like it's a huge missed opportunity not to give people the opportunity to hit the bell and then write for them reasonably consistently when you've got something to say which you always have something to say so that's not going to be an issue for you. You I don't understand why you wouldn't want to do that. I also don't understand why you wouldn't want to, like, clean up that feed, start getting really interesting mind expanding stuff coming into your inbox, and your feed. It makes all the difference. This is really like a true confessions episode, isn't it? I love it.
Rebecca Gunter 35:23
Because if I shared what my clients were sharing, I would be sharing my own freakin writing. I don't know if you can come up with a better advertisement for yourself in the show me Don't tell me world of relationship marketing, right? Here's the problem though. I would rather pick up dog crap out of my backyard with my bare hands. I would rather clean the bathroom. I would rather do the dishes after no one else has done them for four days nor soak them. I would rather clean out my dog's toenails with a toothpicks than go on LinkedIn at all, for any reason. So I'm avoidant. And so I hear you on paper now. Rebecca here, Ryan air, why aren't you sharing your stuff you're missing your audiences missing out you can be part of this zeitgeist. This is the place where you can show your clients where it's would really boost your career. And I know all those things are true. And still, when we get off this call, I'll be like, maybe tomorrow, I'll go on LinkedIn. And I just brace myself for like, like getting a pap smear or something like it's that awful. I need some coaching around embracing the platform.
Gill Moakes 36:45
I want to understand something really quick. Why do you find it easy to write on medium and not on LinkedIn?
Rebecca Gunter 36:54
That's a very good question. I don't know I have zero idea. Medium is just to me, it's a repository like just put your shit up there.
Gill Moakes 37:06
Medium doesn't ask anything from you, other than deliver me an article. And to you. LinkedIn is asking for stuff from you.
Rebecca Gunter 37:15
Oh, my God Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gill Moakes 37:19
That's the difference is at medium, I can just drop the kids off someone, someone out there. leakin is like the children's party that you have to stay at. And thought that the other parents.
Rebecca Gunter 37:39
.And there's no booze.
Gill Moakes 37:41
There's no booze. So but this is how you're viewing LinkedIn, you are viewing it like a children's party that you don't want to be at. But you have to be at it to be able to drop your kids off there. And the rule is that you have to stay with them. What are the what are the options when you don't want to stay at the party then? What if someone said to you okay, but listen, this party is going to be a bit different because so and so's coming. And they're actually really interesting. I know you are going to want to go off and have a chat with them. So it is worth you come into this party. Or what if there was another party where they said, Well, this time just drop the kids off? Don't worry, don't worry about it. Don't stay around. That's okay, too. What if you stopped having so many rules around it? What if you didn't listen all the time to people saying that you've got to post five times a week and you've got to make sure you're engaging for at least two hours every day and above about what if you made it your own rules you curated your feet so it's interesting stuff to read. And you put your own stuff out there but didn't feel the need to stay for the party. If you didn't want to.
Rebecca Gunter 38:44
Go well your look your analogy is spot on. You have nailed me to a tee. I mean feel made me feel a little bit less about my just letting the content stream hit me about curation. However, I'm still at the hurdle of like the thought of even logging in feels like an impossible task.
Gill Moakes 39:06
I want to dive into that a bit deeper. Is this anything to do with visibility? Really.
Rebecca Gunter 39:14
Look I would normally tell you now look has to get our audience you thought you were here for just like a lively LinkedIn conversation said you're getting heads cracked wide open. I would normally tell you and I still look in the camera and say honestly, I don't have a problem hanging in front of an audience and I don't have a problem publishing and I don't have a problem. Being on a podcast or writing or sharing my vulnerable feelings. However, the evidence betrays that statement. For example, I have been assigned by by a business coach for I don't know 5678 weeks to write one simple email and I have procrastinated by that very simple task, which I have no anxiety about information sharing for week after week after week, and in fact, it was all my to do list this week. And I waited until the very last day to put it together.
Gill Moakes 40:11
And you did it so beautifully.
Rebecca Gunter 40:14
It was fantastic. And it was easy to write, and I didn't struggle with it. And I sat down and it flowed right out of me. And I have no problem sharing some of that, you know, vulnerable, like authentic genuine shares and stuff. And yet, I still procrastinated. And I still don't want to log into LinkedIn. And I'm still have tonnes and tonnes of writing that has been, you know, quasi unpublished? Because it just all I'd have to do is copy and paste every day, but I just don't I don't do it.
Gill Moakes 40:49
You don't want to do it.
Rebecca Gunter 40:56
I just will read I'll just put 1000 things in front of it.
Gill Moakes 41:00
Because what would happen if you did do it?
Rebecca Gunter 41:04
I don't have any fear of like, what would happen if I did do it? I just for some reason. I don't want to eat my broccoli.
Gill Moakes 41:12
Yeah you don't? You're literally dodging those nutrients.
Rebecca Gunter 41:19
Why is that? I don't believe in myself. I don't love myself. Those things sound crazy.
Gill Moakes 41:27
I think it is that actually, I think it's that you are quite a perfectionist in terms of if you're going to put something out there, it has to be good. You are not a fan of putting out anything less than great. So for you, it will be a bigger lift than for most people who aren't as perfectionist. That's one thing.
Rebecca Gunter 41:53
Well, I love that because it lets me off the hook. But why have I not taken any of my old stuff that's published on medium and reshard it on LinkedIn with a new comment or conversation? I just had my VA like publish them all without notifying my network or anything. They're just like, up there like a little library? You know, check that box. Very good,
Gill Moakes 42:16
Isn't it? That's a bit of a thing. You don't have a problem with publishing you have a problem with people reading it.
Rebecca Gunter 42:22
Oh, we're probably people reading I want everyone to read my shit. Come on, girl. No Mama is coming with it.
Gill Moakes 42:29
So you got your VA to publish it without notifying anyone.
Rebecca Gunter 42:34
No matter how to write the post?
Gill Moakes 42:37
No, this is the thing. This is it. That's the bit. That's the bit.
Rebecca Gunter 42:43
I'm lazy. I don't I don't want to eat my broccoli. What's the bit?
Gill Moakes 42:48
You're not not lazy? And it isn't about not wanting to eat your broccoli. So what else could it be?
Rebecca Gunter 42:56
I feel like you know, and are just some bread crumbing me until I have some sort of insight. Like you always do.
Gill Moakes 43:08
Oh, that I have to stop doing that slightly evil laugh that's gonna make anyone listening to me thinking oh, girl, I need a business coach, but she's terrifying.
Rebecca Gunter 43:17
No, they'd be like, Thank God, somebody's really just going to tell me the T. Yes, ma'am. me all the way through like a $5,000 retainer.
Gill Moakes 43:28
Yeah, the reason, in my opinion, that you would rather do things. Almost not anonymously. That's not you. But dropping the kids off at medium getting them to just post it or get your VA to just post it off, you know, without having to actually do a personal interaction part is because it's just it's so low maintenance to do it that way. And you don't want to over commit to something that you don't want to follow through on in terms of.
Rebecca Gunter 44:05
Or really like.
Gill Moakes 44:08
Right, right. Yeah, that's really it's. Also.
Rebecca Gunter 44:14
What I don't want to I don't want to say stuff out. I don't want to put something out there and then not do it. And then have everybody think I'm a faker.
Gill Moakes 44:22
Yeah, I think that I think that's part of it. I also think that you are you are authentic and true. And truth sorry, authentic and truthful. to such a point, that for you. Putting stuff out on LinkedIn would be it would be a heavier lift, I think than for most people because you will be so vigilant that your content has to every piece every piece of content has to be going to someone's heart and and making them stopping them in their tracks. And, you know, with that, and that's hard setting that bar so high, which you always do for yourself, your bar is always high. That's why your clients get this fucking copy that blows them away. And I get that as a writer, when people are paying you to write and paying your brand to be their voice, then that's tough. That's like a high bar for yourself. So I kind of get why when you're doing it for yourself, then it's almost like God, I do this for other people on time. And now I've got to kind of, if I'm doing it for myself, it's got to be even better than that. Almost, it's got to be the best piece of writing that anyone in the world has ever read in their lives. Right? And if you're, if that's where you're pitching yourself, no wonder you don't want to fucking log on. I'm exhausted even the thought of how of holding myself to that higher standard.
Rebecca Gunter 46:06
You are really amazing. You are really amazing. One, you absolve me of feeling my guilt or feeling like a hypocrite. And two. Yeah, that is feels completely spot on. live coaching here on the heads together podcast. Yeah, we don't. So if we acknowledge that the reason I find it to be the impossible task is because it kind of is. Yep. And we acknowledge that I am in full control of my content experience, and I should no longer be a passive participant. We preserve the rights when I'm inspired and box.
Gill Moakes 46:56
Rebecca Gunter 46:59
Then perhaps I can learn. See, even me talking about like that I can learn to love LinkedIn feels like, well, I can overcome this huge personal barrier. And finally learn to eat my broccoli, which I actually love broccoli by the way.
Gill Moakes 47:16
You need to learn to love LinkedIn, maybe you need to use LinkedIn the way you want to choose to use it. Maybe you need to stop thinking about all of the ways you've been taught are the right way to use LinkedIn, maybe us you are the one who at the beginning of this episode said, I think LinkedIn is a publishing platform. Those were your words, not mine. So maybe it's time for you to just use LinkedIn the way you want to use it, use it like medium, if that's what you want. But just get your stuff out there get a more interesting feed and your consume and create balance is going to come back into flow as well. That's another thing.
Rebecca Gunter 47:57
You know what I'm gonna do. I'm going to create a serial.
Gill Moakes 48:01
Oh, yes, I love that. I love that idea.
Rebecca Gunter 48:08
Let's create a serial for it.
Gill Moakes 48:11
I want every single person listening to this to quickly quickly run, don't walk, go and connect with Rebecca, on LinkedIn and October philia. So that we can hold her accountable on mass for what's coming up.
Rebecca Gunter 48:31
Drop your ideas.
Gill Moakes 48:34
If you're listening, and you've maybe some of you will only have learned today about the little bell, I'm sure most of you do know. But if some of you also are learning like Rebecca today about the little bell on the profile, go and connect with Rebecca, hit the bell so that you can get notified so that you can literally we will harass her if she does not deliver on this because we want to read this.
Rebecca Gunter 49:00
We've invented here today. Drop your ideas. Tell me what you want me to write about. I don't know we'll have to come up with a brilliant concept. But that part I'm very good at being proactive about so that part does not hold me back. That is true, but a brilliant concept. An idea tree so yeah, I know I'm the Idea Factory you are and I'm not held back on execution but I am held back on the publishing part. And I do agree with you that has a lot to do with perfection paralysis and the bandwidth required for the lift allows me to just be like I'm not working out today. That's not that's not happening.
Gill Moakes 49:44
But do you know what I just want to push back on that a little bit because you know, sometimes you do your micro copy quite often on Instagram. I know you love doing little a little posts with a bit of micro copy. Why can't you do that on LinkedIn too. You know earlier we talked about not every post has to be long form. Not every post has to be value packed. Some posts can be a little micro copy.
Rebecca Gunter 50:09
I'm sick of long form people. And I don't know who has time to read long form.
Gill Moakes 50:13
Me. I love reading them. Honestly, I love it. I love them.
Rebecca Gunter 50:18
If it takes me more than three thumb swipes to get through your article. Oh, yeah. That I'm starting to like, yeah, it's not long actually.
Gill Moakes 50:28
Now I'm when I say long form, I'm not talking about articles, I'm just talking about long posts.
Rebecca Gunter 50:33
I know that are like 700 paragraphs, or something over 100 701 sentence paragraphs.
Gill Moakes 50:41
I like lots of ellipses. Those are the posts that I find really nice and easy to read. I like that.
Rebecca Gunter 50:49
I think the point here isn't that microcopy is better than long form post or the long form post is tired. I think that, yeah, I think that creators really need to keep in mind, no matter what you're doing, that day, your audience is going to have different tastes. So you really want to mix up your marketing, you want your marketing mix to be like it's very mixed up. Because some people want to read bullet points. And some people want to read a paragraph. And some people want to watch video and some people want you know, the long form. I was walking by the creek on my family vacation, and I came across a rock and the rock was perched on top of another rock and it reminded me of the relentless flow of entrepreneurialism, and how that relates to my new course. Which you can pre sign up for.
Gill Moakes 51:45
Oh my god, you do realise that everyone listening to this episode now is never again gonna be able to use the words it reminded me of in a post. You've just literally ruined that formula for us all.
Rebecca Gunter 51:57
Ah ruined, or actually done society a favourite? I think I've done society a favour actually.
Gill Moakes 52:04
True. True. Very true.
Rebecca Gunter 52:06
Well, Gilly, I think you actually have changed my mind about LinkedIn today. And it's not my, it's not the annoying kids party that you is not a drop off that you have to attend.
Gill Moakes 52:17
It doesn't have to be, it can be what you make it.
Rebecca Gunter 52:22
That's true for everything. And I will wax a little bit about why I currently am obsessed with tick tock like every other Gen X or on the planet, which is the ability to curate your content in such a precise way that I actually enjoy the content, I actually enjoy what I'm saying.
Gill Moakes 52:45
Hello, what you've got to do on LinkedIn.
Rebecca Gunter 52:49
And I'm understanding so much more about the world because in my opinion, tick tock is like an anthropologist wet dream. Yeah, of hearing folks talk about their real lives through their own words, and responding to other people within communities and out and having this intense dialogue about their thing, whether it's patriarchy, or Great White Christian nationalism, or how to knit or a, you know, Friday culture or, you know, Team Sharpie pen, or whatever it is that folks are engaging in this very kind of unfiltered, although I know it's highly filtered, because that's how the algorithm works. conversation around their thing. And what you're telling me is LinkedIn is no different. It's just a different format. And it's couched in a suit and tie, just try and overlook that part, and be part of the bigger conversation because it's happening there. It's happening.
Gill Moakes 53:54
My feed isn't couched in a suit and tie. My feed is just the people that I really want to listen to.
Rebecca Gunter 54:02
I'm still saying some pretty on evolved things about LinkedIn. It's always in a certain thigh. You're like, Dude, it's not so boring. Dude, it's not. I don't want to post there dude come on. Like.
Gill Moakes 54:19
We're gonna get you there. Do you know what because the irony of it, this is the irony that blows my mind is that you? Help people create the most mind blowingly good. LinkedIn profiles that I've ever read. They are so good. You mate. Thank you. So I just feel sad that you will say that, you know, LinkedIn is full of boring people. I don't think I've ever read a profile that you've written that makes anyone sound boring, right?
Rebecca Gunter 54:52
I know. That's why I'm saying I'm a hypocrite. I write about how not to be boring. I tell people how to take a nonlinear career and turn into LinkedIn worthy, bright, you know personal brand venture. I love helping people break out of the boring by taking a LinkedIn profile and ripping up your online resume your digital work history and doing some serious storytelling. I am an absolute hypocrite because I do not want to be there any other way which makes me kind of a charlatan. So I better get right with the Lord. Because I'd like writing these profiles. When people come to life there.
Gill Moakes 55:32
If your LinkedIn profile is tired, if it reads like a CV, or if you're across the pond, a resume. You know, Rebecca is a woman seriously, there is no one like her when it comes to writing a profile that really engages people that that actually gets across what you do, so that the person reading it. Number one, they get it straight away. Number two, they can see the differentiation between you and other people who do what you do, because that's what Rebecca's genius at is pulling out what makes you different, why you're the one that they need in their lives. How can people reach out or learn more? Or where should they go?
Rebecca Gunter 56:22
Gilly, I have a couple of blog posts that are really helpful, I think, to walk folks through how to create these like highly creative and engaging personality driven differentiator, unique value proposition splashed LinkedIn profile makeover, if you want to try your hand at it yourself. And then I'll also supply a link where you can find out some more information about getting Rebecca Gunter styled LinkedIn profile makeover, if you can see past my previously admitted hang ups on LinkedIn, and believe with all faith that I will come around finally, to curating my own newsfeed and enjoying the platform, not just helping people look better on it. So yeah, thank you for that Gilly.
Gill Moakes 57:13
It's been amazing. As always, thank you so much.
Rebecca Gunter 57:17
Gilly, thank you for letting me You know, I came to take over and ask you questions and interview you and you gave me some serious heart to heart coaching. You flip the script as you do put me in the hot seat. But I cannot thank you enough for letting that serendipitous moment come to life because I will absolutely be impacted by the advice that you gave me here today. And I think other people will too. So even though this was a podcast takeover, you really were driving the whole time.
Gill Moakes 57:48
I literally took over the takeover.
Rebecca Gunter 57:52
That's the most Gilly thing that ever Gillyed.
Gill Moakes 57:54
That is the most Gilly thing that ever Gillyed the whole goddamn Gilly world. Love it. Thank you so much.
Rebecca Gunter 58:03
Thank you darling.
Gill Moakes 58:06
Okay, till next time, bye.
Rebecca Gunter 58:08
Gill Moakes 58:13
i hope you enjoyed this episode, and that getting our heads together this week has filled your mind with what's possible. If you love the show, would you do me a massive favour please? Would you leave a five star rating on Apple podcasts? It would really help you put more heads together, which will ears and expand more minds. Until next week. Bye for now
Transcribed by https://otter.ai