Gill Moakes 0:00
Welcome, welcome to the heads together podcast. Thanks for joining me again this week, I am being joined today by the fierce leopard print wearing. Hayley Maxwell. Hayley is amazing. She is a positioning and messaging coach. She's actually based in New Zealand, which I didn't find out until today, I thought she was in the UK. She has like a completely beautiful a British accent. And she but she's actually been in New Zealand for the last few years. She is phenomenal, you're going to love her. She's ever said she's a positioning messaging coach. She's also the host of the fierce impact podcast, which is a goodie, go and subscribe to that one. In the show notes for this episode, I'm going to share with you a resource that Hayley has given us which is around how to be wildly unforgettable. So don't forget to head to the show notes after you've listened to this one and grab a copy of that. And also you can find out how to reach out to Hayley. Hayley and I have this amazing conversation. It's all about how to stand out, which is something that we all are craving to do. But we will want to do it without being dicks.
Gill Moakes 1:25
You know, you all know by now my wonderful sign, I think I mentioned it again, in this podcast, the mantra don't be a dick, and Hayley and I go into day to, she's really good at working through this in like a framework of this kind of do this thing next type of framework for getting super authentic, really looking inward, so that you can discover that, like, like I always say that only USP that you have, which is you your way of doing things, the way you show up your values, your purpose, your reason for starting the business that you're starting, or that you have started, right. So if if being yourself being authentically you is really the only USP The only thing that can't be replicated. So this episode really is the guide to working through the things you need to be thinking about to stand out to make yourself different to give clients a reason to put their hand up and say I need to work with that person. Okay, you're gonna love this episode, let's dive in.
Gill Moakes 2:47
Welcome, welcome to the Heads Together Podcast. I'm Gill Moakes. And I am obsessed with cutting through the noise when it comes to growing your business each week via intimate coaching conversations and inspirational stories. I share what it really takes to get the results you want, in a way that feels right to you.
Gill Moakes 3:10
I am all about attracting higher ticket opportunities, building authentic relationships, and creating the abundant full fat version of your dream business. I mean, how many of us have even away creating a light version of what we really want? The thing is, I honestly believe when you're outstanding at what you do, there is no limit to what you can achieve. So are you ready to put our heads together and make it happen? Let's go!
Gill Moakes 3:48
Hayley, welcome to the hits together podcast.
Hayley Maxwell 3:52
Hello, hello. Thank you for having me.
Gill Moakes 3:55
Oh, it's my pleasure, for sure. I'm really glad you're here. I've been really looking forward to this because as anyone listening to podcasts knows positioning is like one of my favourite things to talk about. This is going to be a goodie. So first of all, I would love it if you just share with us a bit about exactly what you do.
Hayley Maxwell 4:16
Yep, so I am a brand positioning and messaging coach and also do a bit of copywriting as well. But essentially, I predominantly now work with service based business owners, so female coaches, consultants and sort of creative service providers, really to help them sort of step into, I guess, a fierce version of themselves in terms of helping them to really reimagine their business and helping them to sort of clarify what it is that they want to be known for. And also to distil that message you know, the big message that they really want to share with the world. For me that positioning and messaging pace just go so beautifully together, I refer to them as a bit of a power couple, you have those two things. And you know, it makes so much else within your business, you know that much easier. So I basically work with my clients and sort of take them through that process, coaching them through, you know, all of those things around positioning and messaging, because people really struggle with that side of their business.
Gill Moakes 5:28
They do. And this is what I'm really excited for us to dive into today. Because I think one of the reasons that people struggle with it is that they don't know how to go inward, how to go really deep inside of and get out from them what it is that makes them different, or have the confidence maybe to show up as that real, authentic self that is different, because I'm always telling to my clients, you know, the only USP we have in our business is our authenticity. That's the only thing that can't be replicated everything else can. I should say, for anyone listening, obviously, we don't do a video, but Hayley didn't disappoint me today, because she always is known for showing up in her leopard print. And she has today on camera. So I was I said to her when we first jumped on, I was gonna be really disappointed if she showed up in some kind of pastel T shirt or something. Yeah, I'd love to see inside your wardrobe. I mean, it's like a big on Safari.
Hayley Maxwell 6:32
Pretty much is yeah, I'd say a good 94% of is probably leopard print, including pyjamas and slippers and you know everything else that you can imagine it's yeah. And I've regularly people messaging me with leopard print items, leopard print clothes, and they say, Oh, I saw this. And you know, I thought of you. So I get messages on Instagram saying and I immediately made me think of you. So.
Gill Moakes 6:57
You have just surprised me when we jumped on set and shared with me that you are actually calling in from New Zealand. And I had put you're based in the UK.
Hayley Maxwell 7:06
I'm from the UK. So yeah, I'm from from Devon in the UK. And so all my family are still still over there. So I came to New Zealand, gosh, about 17, 16, 17 years ago or so now.
Gill Moakes 7:23
Wow okay.
Hayley Maxwell 7:25
Yeah, on my travels and kind of never, never went back.
Gill Moakes 7:30
Wonderful I'm quite jealous. That's definitely on my bucket list of places to visit. So let's dive in then to this kind of this concept of looking within to stand out. Because standing out from the crowd is just kind of a it's a non negotiable now, isn't it? We're in such a crowded arena business arena. So where do we start with that? What does it even mean to look inward to stand out?
Hayley Maxwell 7:57
What I find is that a lot of business owners solo business owners find it really hard to differentiate themselves, essentially, because we all feel like particularly in crowded markets, that well, what makes my service different to that service over there or the service over here. I mean, we're all doing broadly the same thing. So for example, a copywriter, there might be website copywriters in terms of the deliverables, the deliverables are all the same. And so a lot of people get stuck thinking, well, what makes me different? Because there's nothing unique about my service. And actually, it's really about saying, well, no, it's not so much about your your service or the deliverable that you're providing. It's actually about you, as the business owner, as the service provider. What makes you different and your approaches that you bring to the way that you do business. That's what looking inward is. So it's yeah, but looking inward in order to stand out from the crowd. So looking at what makes you internally different as a person based on you know, your perspectives and your unique talents and qualities that you have and that you can bring to the table. So I think what happens is a lot of people get quite nervous and they sort of hide behind what I call a service shield, in a way and what I mean by that is they we're taught to talk about you know, the benefits of our services, you know, and talk about the features of the services or the offers, but actually what we really need to be doing in order to humanise our brand and our business is really talking about well yes, that's those are the benefits. This is the transformation that you can get, but this is how I can help you through this particular process, this is this is my unique take on the work that I do. And when you work with me, this is what I bring to the table. So it's really about drawing out those threads that make us as individuals unique, so that we can stand out to our ideal clients in a stronger, more powerful way.
Gill Moakes 10:25
When you say it, it makes it feel like it should be an easy thing to do. You know, it's like an obvious thing, right? I love what you said about people hiding behind their service or their offer. You know, they'll spend ages coming up with a really good name for their offer, and you know, a list as long as your arm of the benefits of the offer, etcetera. But you're right, it is kind of hiding behind that a little bit. Because the it's, it's new, there's nothing new under the sun these days. So the differentiator is what you bring to it, isn't it?
Hayley Maxwell 11:04
Absolutely, yeah, I think that it's also from a mindset perspective, people find it really hard to talk about themselves, or to, you know, share their talent promote themselves. And so that's definitely part of it, why we sort of, you know, hide behind the surfaces that we have, it's really about, first of all, getting absolutely clear on, you know, your qualities and talents that you bring to the work that you do your approaches and your perspectives. Because all too often we keep that stuff in our head. And we don't necessarily, even though we think we know it, because it's, it's us, and it's inside our head, actually, when we come to sit down and talk about, you know, what makes us different, or why someone should choose us, it's actually a really hard thing to articulate. Clearly, if we haven't sort of done that work, in order to clarify it, it's worth taking that time to sort of sit down and do that introspective work. Because when you do that, and you see it on paper, and you've sort of got it clear in your head about what you are bringing to your work and to your clients, and you know, the value you provide, it's really empowering because it's like, wow, this, this is me, this is what I bring to my, to my business to my brand to my clients. And, and that is a real confidence boost as well. And it gives you this immense sense of conviction. Because I always sort of say that clarity breeds that conviction and confidence, which in turn leads to courage, so and courage is the thing that we need in order to put ourselves out there. And so when you bring all those pieces of the puzzle together, it just really creates a more empowering space for you to actually sort of claim your space in, in your industry as the expert that you are, for example.
Gill Moakes 13:10
Your point about that clarity, leading to the conviction, which leads to the courage is so I can totally relate to that the first time I felt confident enough to put out something I you know, really believed in or really thought or my own true authentic opinion, was only when I had done a tonne of work on actually, unearthing what that was because I think as business owners and especially as aspiring business owners, we spend so much time looking at what other people do. how other people do it the way other people sound, the words other people use. And if we're not careful, we do end up being this kind of pay limitation don't we have of the way other people do things?
Gill Moakes 14:01
So I really love this prioritisation around getting clear on what your own take on something is your own words your own way of doing it. Yeah, it's just yeah, vital. So where do we start? Hayley help us? Where do we start with that?
Hayley Maxwell 14:20
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, when I work with my clients, I've got kind of a bit of a framework that I take them through in order to help them uncover, you know, some of these the key questions that they need to ask themselves, really, it begins with thinking about what your purpose is, and I know that that might be a bit of an eye roll moment for some people, because, you know, it's so talked about, but actually, again, it's one of those things that we keep in our heads as opposed to actually getting down on on paper and, and really spending the time articulating it.
Hayley Maxwell 15:00
You know, when I talk about purpose, I'm really talking about your purpose beyond paying the bills. So your purpose beyond earning profit for your business, I'm talking about what is the thing within your business that really fills you with that fire to get up there and to speak to you know, your audience and to share your knowledge? And and why do you do that? You know, what is that driving force behind the work that you do? Why do you want to spend your days doing the work that you do. And so, I think we need to really dig deep and think about what it is aside from the money aspect that really lights us up inside. Because that becomes then your, your kind of anchor, I guess, in terms of everything else that you're doing within your business, you know, that when you start to talk to your clients about the work that you do, and you know what your purpose is, it just fuels things, it gives everything that it sort of amplifies everything that you're doing. So really asking yourself and getting clear on what your what your purpose is, is, is the first stage that I always, you know, sit down and work with my clients on. And then I would look at things like my clients values, because again, this is something that is inherently unique to you. What are the values that you would never ever compromise in business or in your, your personal life? And on top of that, asking yourself, Well, what did these values mean to me? But also, what do these values mean, for the way that I show up for my clients, for the way that I approach my work as well?
Gill Moakes 17:00
That's so important, isn't it? Because I see a lot of business owners who proudly display their values on their website, or wherever you know. And actually, when you really look closely and dig deep, you know, are they showing up in alignment with those values? Are those really their values? Or are those things that they've think will look good on their website, for example.
Gill Moakes 17:27
And I think you can tell, you can tell when someone really is living their values, really showing up in alignment with them. And that makes such a difference. Just thinking about the purpose thing as well, because it is overused as a phrase, but you made a really good point, it's kind of the thing apart from making money, because I always think like, any business, if you're a savvy business owner, any business can make you money. So why this business? How is that in alignment with what you value.
Hayley Maxwell 18:02
And going back to that purpose piece, but when you're really firm in your purpose, and you're having a bad day, you know, we all get those bad days as business owners, or maybe you're experiencing a challenging client or something like that, and you're just why am I doing this, then you've always got that purpose to go back to and you're like, This is why I'm doing it. And that gives you the drive to keep to keep moving forwards to keep going, you know, to keep going on when things are tough. And so it's it's not just about you know, the the number of clients that you can potentially be working with, it's also saying to yourself, if I can make a difference to just one person with my purpose, you know, through my purpose, then, you know, that makes me really happy. So, quite often, I think we are all made to sort of think numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, but actually when you bring it back, and you're you're you sit within your purpose, it's if I can make a difference if I can make an impact to one person's life in business, you know, one person by one person, and really stand firm in my own purpose. That's a really powerful thing to keep you motivated and to keep you going.
Gill Moakes 19:27
I completely agree. And the uncanny thing is, the money follows that if your purpose is to make that difference and have that impact, the money will take care of itself.
Hayley Maxwell 19:39
When you stand really firm and you believe in your purpose. People can feel that, you know, so your audience, your clients, they can really feel that you care about it, that you're coming from a place of authenticity. So I think it's really important to sit down and do that deep work to say, why why does this work actually matter to me? Why does it actually matter to my clients? So we've got to be clear about those things for ourselves, but also why it should matter to our clients as well. And then going back to the values, I think, quite often, it's really easy for us to think, yep, we need to have our list of values. And so I'll quickly hop onto Google. And I'll Google, you know, values, different attributes, values, that sort of thing. But actually, and sometimes that can be a good place to start. But sometimes it's really sitting down and thinking through, you know, the way that you operate, or the boundaries that you have, or the relationships that you want to build, what are some of those key key pieces that really, you would never want to step over a particular line or that you would always want to make sure that you are demonstrating that to your ideal clients or to your clients as well? And, and really, when you're sharing your values, it's really about? Yeah, as I said earlier, not just saying why it's important to you, but actually how to how do the values that you uphold, how do they make a difference to your clients, when you work with with them and the approach that you take and really articulating that, because that is a piece that is going to be incredibly attractive and interesting and meaningful to your ideal clients that you're looking to potentially work with? If they can feel that there's an alignment there in terms of their values and your values, then that's a really big piece of the picture in terms of separating you from the crowd.
Gill Moakes 21:50
Yeah, absolutely. And it's also important in terms of repelling those clients who aren't right for you who aren't going to be a good fit, because their values aren't aligned with yours.
Hayley Maxwell 22:03
Completely. Yeah. Yep. So the next one is around your position. So yeah, this is the positioning piece. And so what I encourage people to think about is really, you know, how, how do they want to be perceived by their ideal clients, by their their audience? What do they want to be known for? And a lot of people think, Oh, that's a bit of an obvious question, what do I want to be known for? Well, it's what I do, you know, it's, you know, I want to be known as a copywriter. But it's actually not not about that it's about, you know, really thinking about, what is the message that I want to be known for, as well? And, you know, how do I really want to be perceived, because, essentially, when it comes to your brand, and you know, your, your reputation, it's really, that we can either leave, leave the perceptions of us to chance, or we can try to cultivate them to the best of our ability. And so that means really being intentional and thinking about, well, how do I want to be perceived, you know, out there, and, you know, the big wide internet world or, you know, when I'm engaging with my audience, or clients, you know, what do I want them to think of me, and when we know, how we want to be thought of, it means that we can begin to sort of work backwards. So we're essentially trying to carve out that unique space in our ideal clients minds. And so by understanding the position that we want to hold in that our ideal clients minds, we're then able to sort of better work backwards, so that everything that we do within our business is, is in greater alignment with that perception that we're trying to create. So, if you are trying to, if you say that, well, I want to create a premium brand with a high end experience, and you know, I want to be regarded as the best in in the business for this particular offering, then you know, that there are certain things that you are potentially going to have to do in order to begin to carve out that experience for your ideal clients or for your your audience. And so you're beginning to sort of work backwards. And so that might be okay, so every touchpoint, I need to make sure I'm using this particular type of language or I'm using this particular tone, or, you know, I need to think about how my pricing reflects the positioning that I've, I've got and, and so you can see that if you know clearly how you want to be regarded, then you can begin to sort of carve out that unique spot in your your ideal clients minds essentially
Gill Moakes 25:04
One of the really important things in that positioning piece is understanding that ideal client, isn't it, because you can't position yourselves for them in any way shape, or form until you really understand them deeply and can anticipate what it is they want how they want to perceive someone that they are going to want to invest with, or not. You know, it's that really understanding who your ideal clients are, I think in this in this position.
Hayley Maxwell 25:35
You've got to be really clear on who you are actually wanting to work with. And so and obviously, that, that requires that sort of internal reflection work as well, because you know, you've you've got to be really clear on it, because not only is it important for your messaging piece and the positioning piece, but you know, otherwise, what happens is, you end up trying to speak to everyone and you know, your positioning really needs to reflect the the type of client that you're really wanting to draw into your business as well. And so, you know, if you're not mindful of that, then you can end up positioning your brand in one way, but having an audience that is misaligned to that particular positioning piece, for example. So you've really got to think about these things, while we're talking about sort of looking looking within, and figuring out what it is that you're wanting thought for your business and how you're wanting to sort of stand out, you also do need to think about some of those external factors like your ideal client, and who you really want to work with, so that you're able to then get laser focused on, you know, really speaking to those those particular those particular people.
Gill Moakes 26:57
Yeah, that makes complete sense. And then what's the next kind of part of the framework because I love that you have this framework that you take people through, because it feels like a really nice journey of, of how to actually do this. Because sometimes I think, you know, we have these concepts, so you know, how to stand out or whatever it is been, we're to surface level, we don't actually say to people, you know, that this is how you do it, you get really clear on this. Acknowledge that.
Hayley Maxwell 27:26
Exactly. Yeah. And I think you're right, it definitely is a journey. And it's not something that happens, you know, really fast, but we have to sort of start that process. And I think the other part of it is that often, what happens is, we get into business, we get our business up and running, and we focus on, you know, doing the day to day, you know, we want to get the clients in the door, because we need to obviously pay the bills. And before we know it, a few years have passed, and we're we're still sort of in that go go go go phase and, and we've not taken that or been able to take that time, because we've been so much doing the do, we've not been able to take that time and headspace that we need in order to do this deeper level work that really sets you up to elevate your, your brand and your business to that, that next level. And so, you know, that's why I say, you know, it's, it's not something that's going to sort of happen overnight, it does take sort of deep work. And it's definitely that journey. And I really like how you talked about it being a journey? Because it absolutely, absolutely is, it's almost like a bit of a self discovery process to draw all these threads out of you so that you can get clear on, you know, how you are different to everyone else in your field. And it's also it also means that you don't have to go, you know, down and Instagram rabbit hole, for example, looking for what everyone else in your industry is doing or saying because actually, you've just you have blocked out the external factors. And you are sitting, sitting in almost that discomfort, because it is it is uncomfortable sometimes, you know, doing this, this work and asking yourself, what do I really want my business and my brand to be and and actually, who am I and what do I bring to that table in terms of the next step? It's really around perspectives. And so that is really digging into, you know, what you stand for. So, you know, if you are climbing up a hill and you've got a flag, what is it that you really want to wave your flag, fierce flag and sort of say, you know, what do you stand for what do you stand against? What do you really believe in? And so that can be things that happen within your industry that maybe you've got to specific take on, or it can be things that to you, you know, experience with your clients on a regular basis that maybe break your heart, you know, or maybe that make you a little bit frustrated or so. So think about some of those things that, you know, you sit there and you're sort of like, okay, you know, I really don't like the way that our industry talks about this. Or, you know, I really feel like, you know, this is something that I need to be talking about more. Because when we share our beliefs and our perspectives about the work that we do, and about our industry and those sorts of things, then it enables our audience and our ideal clients to really get a sense of, you know, who we are and what we're fighting for. And, you know, what we strongly believe in and what what we stand for, essentially, and again, that's a really important piece when it comes to the connection factor as well. And so I'm not talking about a lot of people sort of talk about the fact that you know, to stand out, you've got to be polarising. And I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that it's not good to be polarising for polarising sake. So I think it's really about again, digging outside and really sitting and thinking about all of those things that, you know, make you really grumpy about your industry or that you'd love to improve or your specific takes on things. But not not just to be polarising thought for the sake of it.
Gill Moakes 31:44
And of course, if you genuinely hold a really controversial polarising view on something, then being brave enough to make a stand for that, but like you say, let it be authentic, you know, don't, don't sit there racking your brains thinking, What can I be polarising about in this next post, cuz it's just, it just doesn't land well.
Hayley Maxwell 32:10
It's got to be something that you can feel like you can easily talk about, you know, that actually, when you talk about it, you can feel that fire inside you. Because you're wanting to make some kind of change, some kind of improvement, some kind of impact, or you're wanting people to be aware of something, when it comes from you. And that is authentic, you can feel that inside. And also, you know, your, your audience can as well, they can feel that fire inside you.
Gill Moakes 32:44
An example of it is so for me, I am super passionate about this concept of rewilding your business, and really kind of stripping away the stuff that you don't need or that doesn't belong there. So that the stuff that does belong in your business can thrive. So simplifying things, that is something that I would, that's what I would wave my flag on at the top of that hill. And the thing is, once you're clear about the topics, that you really want to be known for that you really believe in it easy to keep talking about them. Yeah, because it's what you really think. And I think that's where some people that disingenuous, okay, I'm gonna take a very controversial view on this. And they'll put out a really kind of spiky, controversial post, but then there's no kind of thread of that through their business. It's kind of just something that they've done to get that, get those likes and comments up. And it doesn't wash does it now, I think we're a bit we're all a bit too smart, sophisticated online now to fall, for it exactly.
Hayley Maxwell 33:55
And sometimes what you see people sort of jumping on to sort of piggybacking on to trends. So you'll see a wave of a particular opinion, or a particular perspective, you know, coming through social media, and a lot of people will piggyback on that, but they've not necessarily really done that, that work to understand their own perspectives on it. And then what you end up seeing is, everyone's saying the same thing again, you know, it's and again, what happens is, then that mate means that you sort of blend in because hopefully, everyone's saying exactly the same thing. And I think that I'm forgetting who it is. I think it's Marty, new, new Maya Neumeir. He's got yep, that's the one Neumeir the book zag, which is a fantastic book, and he really talks about the fact that, you know, our main competition is is clutter, and you know, so it's not other competition, it's actually the clutter and so, actually taking that time to really think about your own perspectives is what will help you to sort of cut through some of that, that clutter, and being really mindful and thoughtful when you are sharing those perspectives as well. So that it is really deeply rooted in, in what you believe and standing strong in that.
Hayley Maxwell 35:21
So yeah, the next one would be prowess. And so when I talk about your prowess, this is really your, your, your unique sort of qualities and talents that you bring to the table. So this is your experience and your knowledge that you have within you. And so, a lot of people think, well, immediately, well, you know, I've, I've been doing this for however many years. So that's my experience. But actually, what about if we looked further back than that, so what about if we really looked into our, our past and looked at all the different types of jobs that we've had, for example, whether it was a job when you are, you know, in your teenage years, or whether it's a job when you, you know, 20s 30s, and then maybe you've changed to what you're doing now, there are always things from each of those roles that you bring to what you do today that have influenced the way that you work that have influenced the way that you build those connections with people or, you know, have influenced your particular approach or strategies. And so it's really about thinking about maybe some of those roles, thinking about the experiences that you've had. So it could be life experiences, as well, what experiences have you been through that have actually shaped who you are as a person, because you can't separate who you are, as a person from your your business, when you are a solo business owner, when you are essentially the face of your business, you know, you carry all of these things within you those personal experiences as well that life experiences, and they really shape your approach to how you, you know, liaise with people how you, you know, work with, with people as well, and the approaches that you take. So thinking about those those elements of your life. And also things like thinking about maybe what hobbies or interests that you have, that actually have some sort of influence, again, on the way that you work. Because even though we might not necessarily think about some of those, you know, hobbies or interests as being something that actually directly affects our work they can do so for example, I love photography, and I did actually at one point have a photography kind of side, little side business. But, you know, from the perspective of photography, what that brings to me and and the work that I do is, you know, I come at my work very much from, you know, a whole communication perspective. So, when I'm talking about messaging and positioning, visuals, so not just, you know, your brand identity, but photography plays a really big part in you know, a person's brand. And so making sure that you're using your images, for example, to amplify your, your message, and to help you communicate your messages. That's a really big part of that overall sort of puzzle. And so, I have developed that, that knowledge, that awareness, because of not just my working communication, and my studying communication, but also because of being a photographer as well, you know, and bringing that that lens if you like, you know, to my, to my work and the way that I approach, positioning and messaging as as a whole. So, it's thinking about things, things like that. So it could be you play a musical instrument and what does that taught you, you know, that you've, you know, practice, practice, practice, or, you know, it could be that you've done, you know, ultra marathons, or what has that taught you maybe resilience, that huge resilience and strength within you to keep going. So it's, it's thinking about some of those outside of the box things within us that, you know, actually we might not think about that actually really influenced the way that we do our work or that we the way that we see the world. Yeah.
Gill Moakes 40:02
Yeah. And, and it's more of the things that make us different. The more of the things that make us stand out, isn't it? It's and that I think that one for me really resonates with that going deeper inside to bring out what it is that stands us, that makes us stand out. And I love that thought of not just not just thinking about what we do right now, the the service we sell right now, but what are all the skills and talents and experiences that we've had going right back to childhood that make us who we are.
Hayley Maxwell 40:39
For example, when I was young, so my mum passed away when I was very, very young. So I was 10. And one of the things that I know, that that has given me is this immense sense of empathy for other people. And that has been a huge part of the way that I work with people is my ability to be empathetic about the the situation that they are in the challenges that they're facing, and to really listen to and tune into that side of them. And so for me, that makes me different, it's not necessarily something I, you know, share all the time. But it's, it's had a major impact on, you know, the way that I hold space for my clients, and also the way that I hold space for my clients clients. So I'm always wanting to protect their, their clients journey. So the user experience of my clients, clients, I'm always wanting to make sure that they are having a good experience as well, that my clients are thinking about, you know, certain things relating to the way that they work with their clients, as well. So those are just some of the things and you know, doesn't necessarily need to be like my story. But you know, just some of those things actually, we carry with us that really do impact the way that we that we work and the way that we do things.
Gill Moakes 42:11
Honestly, Hayley, I think that's just such a great example. I love examples like that, because so it's so easy for us on podcasts and things like this for us to come to talk surface level about our way of working our off offer services, etc. But I think that example, you just gave us such a good example of bringing to life what you mean when you say, going back digging deeper, and really, almost bring into the front of your mind that the skills that you've got. So for you, it's that empathy. And then you took that one step further and said, and because of that, I've got this eye on my clients, clients, I'm aware of their journey of working with my clients straightaway, for me, that makes you stand out. Just that awareness of, you know, this isn't necessarily just a relationship between you and your client. It's having that empathy that you that sets you apart, that gives you the ability to observe clients.
Hayley Maxwell 43:17
Yeah, I think it gets a bit confusing your clients, clients, clients.
Gill Moakes 43:23
I'm just gonna say clients a few more times.
Hayley Maxwell 43:25
Absolutely. And I think, yeah, we've we've all got these, these various stories within, within us that actually, when we take that time to sit down, and to allow us ourselves to have that, that space as well, to really just begin to let things things flow and to write things down, then, you know, we can really start to pick up on well, why do I do things a particular way? You know, what, where did that come from? And actually begin to understand it and unravel it, and then we can start sort of pulling these little threads, little threads out of us. So yeah.
Gill Moakes 44:05
Yeah, I love that. Love it.
Hayley Maxwell 44:07
And then finally, so that the last one is really around your, your personality, you know, who are you as a person? And so really, you know, sitting down and asking yourself that, that question and understanding yourself, and you know, what your qualities are. And even if you struggle with this, you can ask your family members, you can ask friends, you know, what would you say my core personality traits are? How does that show up? You know, so when I am with you, you know, what are some of the things that I do that make you feel like that is a personality trait of mine, and also thinking about some of those those strengths as well that we have. So what are our strengths in terms of our personality.
Hayley Maxwell 45:02
And also thinking about how we then, you know, have so also thinking about what our personality is from a client perspective. So even asking some of our favourite clients, you know, the ones that we really want to clone, you know, what, what was it when you worked with me? What was it that you enjoyed about working with me? You know, what would you say my personality strengths are my personality traits are, and actually asking them and saying, you know, how did that make you feel, and sort of being brave enough to have those conversations with our clients can be really revealing as well about the way that they've enjoyed working with us, or the way that we actually work that, you know, we don't often think about, and it can be a bit daunting doing it at first, but I would say, pick a client that maybe you've developed a really good relationship with that you would definitely love to have more of those times, and just say, hey, look, can I just have a 10 minute conversation, I'm doing some, some work on my, my business, my brand and developing the way that I talk about, you know, who I am and what I do, and I just really love to get your perspective on, you know, what, what was it about me that you were attracted to, from a personality perspective? And also, you know, what strengths and parts of my personality did you really most enjoy? While we were working together? So, so doing those things, that they're really simple things, but we don't necessarily stop and have time in our busy day to actually sit down and go, I'm gonna write a list of my personality traits.
Hayley Maxwell 46:55
You know, I know it sounds a bit like, oh, well, I don't really know how to do that. I know, my personality is but actually, you know, asking yourself why and, and then taking it that one step further and saying, well, what benefit is this to my clients or to the people that I'm trying to attract? And so always again, then asking yourself, what is the benefit of this to my ideal client? You know, why, why does this mean that they should choose me, and because essentially, when we are trying to position ourselves to sort of stand out from the crowd, it is about getting chosen. It's about making sure that we get noticed, and then it's about making sure we are remembered. And then it's really about, you know, positioning ourselves in that way, so that we are really sticky and our ideal clients minds so that when they are at a point when they need the help that we provide that we pop up in their head, and they're like, oh, yeah, you know, Hayley, Hayley, does that, or Gill does that or, you know, and so we're there immediately, and that really increases our chances of getting chosen.
Gill Moakes 48:10
Yeah, absolutely right. As you're saying that, I was just thinking, I have one of those personalities that I'm not very good at hiding anything about my personality, I'm an oversharer. I'm a total, like, What You See Is What You Get kind of person. And Dave, my partner came into my office the other day and said, I can't believe you still have that sign. So I'm pointing to it for anyone just listening, I have a sign over my shoulder that says, don't be a dick, that one of my American clients got for me. And he's like, you can't have that on there when you're speaking to prospective clients surely, or, you know, or people that you're interviewing, for example, and I said, well, here's the thing, I really can, because anyone who doesn't think that's funny, isn't going to like working with me, then, you know, I'm not the right person for them. And that's okay. That's okay. You know, our personalities don't have to be a match for everyone. They only have to be a match exactly what we want to work.
Hayley Maxwell 49:12
Exactly when you're showing your personality and, you know, you're leaning into your personality more again, you know, that's, that's going to either attract people to you, or it's going to repel people to you and, and that's exactly what we're wanting to do. So we're not wanting to we're wanting to stand out but we're wanting to stand out to the kind of people that we would really love to work with. And that means that they have also got to be a personality match for us as well. Because there's no point in being, say you're the most sweary person in the world and you know, you're very bold and you know, all of those sorts of things. If if that really intimidate someone, but and you're sort of like you playing it down, then it's going to be, if you end up working with that person who kind of feels quite nervous or shy or intimidated by that, and you've played it down, it's going to be really hard for you to do your best work, because you're gonna feel like yeah, you know, you've caged yourself in so it's a case of really leaning into your personality. And you can, you can be mindful of what elements that you want to share about your you know, about your personality, you know, your personality traits, if, if and depending on, you know, what your business is, and that sort of thing, you know, so you don't have to necessarily let all of your personality completely flop out if you don't want to, but if you want to, then go for it, and people will either be attracted to it or not. And, and that's absolutely fine. You know, we're not, I think I talked about this thing called sort of the corporate hangover, where, you know, a lot of us who were in the corporate world, before starting our own businesses were very much, you know, straight laced, and you have to be formal. And you know, there's a certain way that the company does things, and you have to follow that. And you've got to be like this with clients, well, you know, that times have changed as well, particularly when you are your own business, and you're the face of the business, actually, people really want to get a sense of who you are, and whether they think they can vibe with you, because we're not necessarily looking for, what we're looking for is is someone who we think that we could get on with that could guide us through whatever it is that we're helping, needing help for. And, you know, particularly with things like coaching, or those kinds of more intensive one to one work, then actually, we want to know that that time we're spending with that person, we're actually going to feel really comfortable working with them. And we're going to feel connected to them. And so if you're not letting your personality shine, if you're not letting your value shine or your perspective shine, then you're not allowing people to see who you really are. And that makes it really hard for other people to make a decision about whether you would be a right fit for them. And so that's why we've got to be as you talk about being really authentic in terms of the way that we come across in order to stand out, because that's the way that we can begin to attract more of those awesome clients that we all really want to have.
Gill Moakes 52:37
Yeah. And isn't that is I feel like that's the essence is the answer to the whole question that we've been talking about today is, if you want to stand out, be the most you that you can possibly be.
Gill Moakes 52:54
Right? That's kind of the answer. It's no more complex or difficult than that. It's just finding that the courage to be the most
Hayley Maxwell 53:06
Yeah, it is about courage.
Gill Moakes 53:08
Yeah. Ah, such an interesting conversation. Honestly, I could talk to you all day about this, because this is one of my favourite topics. I think it is the key thing that people struggle with in their business. And often what because it's something they're struggling with, they will turn their attention to, yeah, busy themselves with other stuff, creating a new offer, creating a new marketing strategy, setting up a new social media platform, you know, and all of those things are well and good, but they're kind of papering over the cracks. If you haven't done this foundational work of how you can make yourself stand out in such a lonely arena.
Gill Moakes 53:59
Hayley, it's been so helpful to talk to you so anyone listening who would like to find out more about how they could maybe work with you or find out more about what you do well, so my website is hayleymaxwell.com. And probably my platform of choice is Instagram. So I'm @ TheHayleyMaxwell. So those are my two main places where I sort of hang out and you can find all the details about me so come and stalk me in a nice way of course. Oh, yeah, have a good stalk. I'll pop the.
Hayley Maxwell 54:37
Yeah.
Gill Moakes 54:38
Yeah, in a nice, not a really, really scary stalk away, please. I'll pop the links in the show notes. Of course. What have you got coming up on the horizon with your business and he exciting going on that we should share with people while you're you're in the UK, but I'm in November, I'm heading over to Australia and I'm speaking at an event in in Australia. So I'm very excited about that. And that's all about sort of positioning and messaging. And just just just really, at the moment just in a phase of my business where I'm really enjoying sort of working with, you know, the clients that I'm working with, and just really helping them with with this kind of work because I just believe it.
Gill Moakes 55:25
Yeah, I love that. And let's do this again at some point. Thank you. Yeah. Bye for now.
Gill Moakes 55:36
I hope you enjoyed this episode, and that getting our heads together this week has filled your mind with what's possible. If you love the show, would you do me a massive favour please? Would you leave a five star rating on Apple podcasts? It would really help you put more heads together, reach more ears and expand more minds. Until next week. Bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
