Gill Moakes 0:00
Hello, welcome. Welcome back to the heads together podcast. Thanks for joining me again this week. I have the absolute pleasure of introducing you to one of my clients. Her name is Tamsin Jardiniere. She is bloody awesome. And her story is captivating, you're going to, you're just going to love this. I promise you. Tamsin is going to share her story with us. We're also going to talk about what it really means to be authentic. What does it take to actually be who you are, do what you love. And really, that's been Tamsin's journey. From a busy life in London, to a rural out of the way, home in France, where she now is a retreat host. Her retreat business is called little French retreats, which I love. You know, it's one of those does what it says on the tin kind of names for business. It's a little French retreat. The story of how tam came to France and began running these little French retreats is just so heartwarming. It's a tale of courage, radical authenticity, and willingness to let go of needing to know the answer to everything. Let's dive in, because I cannot wait for you to hear from her.
Gill Moakes 1:48
Welcome, welcome to the heads together podcast, I'm Gill Moakes. And I am obsessed with cutting through the noise when it comes to growing your business each week via intimate coaching conversations and inspirational stories. I share what it really takes to get the results you want, in a way that feels right to you. I am all about attracting higher ticket opportunities, building authentic relationships, and creating the abundant full fat version of your dream business. I mean, how many of us have even away creating a lite version of what we really want? The thing is, I honestly believe when you're outstanding at what you do, there is no limit to what you can achieve. So are you ready to put our heads together and make it happen? Let's go
Gill Moakes 2:50
Hey, Tamsin.
Tamsin Jardiniere 2:52
Hi, Gill.
Gill Moakes 2:54
Thank you so much for joining me today. I have been so looking forward to this.
Tamsin Jardiniere 3:01
Me too. Yeah.
Gill Moakes 3:03
You're so welcome. Always. I was just gonna say to be fair, chatting like, this isn't new to us, is it? But this feels good to have you on the podcast. You know, there's some people in your life that you just find fascinating. I find you fascinating. From the moment I've met you, I've found you really fascinating everything about your life. What you do, you know, coaching, having you as, as a coaching client is an absolute blessing for me, because I'm so invested and interested in your business because it's a beautiful, beautiful business. I suppose to start with, I would love it if you would just fill us in for everyone listening a little bit about what you do. And the journey to that.
Tamsin Jardiniere 3:54
Thank you. That's really kind words as well, we don't see ourselves as fascinating. When we're inside our own heads often do we we just kind of like taking each day at a time. And I think really that is the essence of what I do. What I do is just a reflection of myself. You know, it brings together all of my strengths, and it doesn't really feel like I work which makes me realise that I have created something that is really real. I started back in 2008. So my business little French retreat, and my coaching side unfolding conversations really stemmed from my mum died in 2008. And I'd been working in interiors so I had a background in craft design. And that had led me through manufacturing and then into managing interior stores. And whilst I loved the environments that I worked in and I love the clients for because I had an arts background, there was just something not there. And I think it was, I suppose that many of us, sometimes you kind of, you're not. So in touch, you're not paying attention to the quality of what you're doing. And I was much younger. And I was thinking more about money, and status, and achieving material aspects that would make me happy. Because I lost my parents when I was young, my father died when I was 20. So when I was 33, and my mom died, it was a real wake up moment of life is so short, I know I'm not 100% certain about what I'm doing. I haven't got time to waste. And that was that. So within three months of my mom passing away, I handed in my notice. And I said to my boss, I'm gonna go away for six weeks, and he kind of rolled his eyes when I told him what I was gonna do. It was a classic Eat Pray Love. moment where I Yes, just decided to take off on a whim. In fact, somebody gave me that book on taking off, because I was going to India. So I decided I'm going to India, I was going to see my best pal who lived in Ghana. And I would spend a couple of weeks in an ashram, and then a couple of weeks floating around, and then I might come back to work, I thought I was going to sort my life out in six weeks.
Gill Moakes 6:31
Just that little tiny thing of sorting your entire life out. Yeah. How could it possibly take more than six weeks?
Tamsin Jardiniere 6:39
Yeah, and I think on a trajectory that was so much led by commerce, so you know, I've worked Yes, quarterly, quarterly budgets for a long time. So I, the thought of actually taking myself out of that structure was terrifying. And I knew I had, I knew I had it in me to do my own thing. But at that stage, I didn't really know what that would be and how it would take shape. I also knew I didn't want to be anyone else's brand anymore, I put so much of my heart and soul into other companies, and realise that you don't really have, you know, there's always something within another company, whilst I loved certain aspects of the products that we sold, there's always something that isn't quite aligned with who you are. And so really, when I left work, it was to try and work out what I loved, and what made me happy, and also to heal and get well, from being exhausted from losing my mom. When I came back from India, I still didn't really know what I was going to do. But I knew that I couldn't take a job just for the sake of taking a job. So that was the beginning, really, of realising that I was freelance. And if I wasn't going to be employed by somebody, I had to just take it step by step to make a living to pay the bills. And it took me quite some time really to realise I think the only thing in the beginning was holding on to the feeling that I couldn't cop out, I couldn't sell out on myself. I knew it was like water and oil. If I took a job that didn't really make my heart sing, I'd be stepping backwards. And I felt like the hardest thing to do was leave the job. And so everything after that had to be about stepping forwards.
Gill Moakes 8:40
I think that's so interesting, because that I had a really similar thing when I left corporate world and people I've shared my story lots of times, and I kind of started the wrong business for me. And at times, I would have this little of you know, I've swapped one job that I didn't love or feel aligned to. And I've now built my own, but I still don't feel aligned to it. But I also knew that I couldn't just go back and get a job. And I had to keep working on finding out what was right for me. And I think that's a key thing is that once you've made that leap, and committed to doing what you love, rather than making someone else's dream come true in their business, you know, I think you can't go back some of the switch flicks and it's hard then to ever go back. It's like you're you're on your mission then.
Tamsin Jardiniere 9:42
Yeah, and it takes so much humbleness as well because we get so wrapped up sometimes in a trajectory that's about status and pay being aligned and actually our soul so rarely comes into it. And I think that's what I was yearning,I needed to know that my soul was being spoken to in my work, and that that's what would get me up in the morning. And that's what would make me feel joyful. And that's what would bring me my sense of self. Rather than sell out and compromise the hours, I was always working. And when I wasn't working, I was exhausted, you know, and I was not eating properly. There was no real time, my quality outside of work was always rushing around taking calls on and off buses. And I just got so disconnected from and I remember those questions being the questions that were hard to answer. And people said to me, what's your purpose? Or what are you passionate about? And I would well up feeling really tearful thinking of God, I started off life as a wanting to be an artist, but following a creative path. It was creative in that I was managing creative businesses, but when you're a manager, you're, you know, you're often managing other people's aspirations. And that's what I kept seeing, im not managing my own creative aspirations I managing, managing everybody else's, I want to manage my own. And that was the driving force. Like, I've got to answer for myself, what am I passionate about? What's my purpose, and my purpose I knew deep down was not to manage interior design shops. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been questioning it, questioning it in the first place. And if it hadn't been my purpose, so be it, you know, I wouldn't have left my work. So it, I only left because there were all these unanswered questions.
Gill Moakes 11:52
So when you finally did kind of make that move, and you went off to India, how did it actually pan out? What happened after India?
Tamsin Jardiniere 12:03
I think something happened in India that made me realise how life could be very different. Spending time in an ashram was really a big turning point for me. I went in as this uptight, busy manager,
Gill Moakes 12:27
I think it'd be quite humble about your time in London, I mean, you you had quite a prominent position, didn't you in in interior design. And you know, you were dealing with some pretty high profile clients, and it was a massive change for you.
Tamsin Jardiniere 12:44
Yeah, I work for a lovely company, I always think it was a really nice place to end my career on because I'd got to the highest point, I could have worked out in a very high end, luxury environment where clients were exclusive. Private, we didn't have many customers per day. So it was a fascinating way to work in sales, because it was very much a concierge to clients, who would come in, they were international clients, so we would be their guide. So it was more than selling interior design. It was and that's what I loved about it, actually, we would get to know our clients, we would know their family, we would know that their birthdays, they drop us a mail and say we're coming into London, we'd be able to recommend things that we knew that they would enjoy. So it was a it was a very lovely environment, because it gave, we have the time to invest in people. And that's something you know, that's one of the reasons I was there. It wasn't a random random job. I am grateful I got picked for it. But it it ticks many boxes because of that.
Gill Moakes 14:01
But equally, I think working intimately with clients like that, at that level that you're at, is also exhausting, particularly when he is working for another company. And like you say you're, you're almost bringing out other people's creativity in them. I can imagine that when you went to India, it must have been like, hitting pause on what had been a really demanding life in London.
Tamsin Jardiniere 14:34
What I do now isn't actually that different. But I think there are times in life where when you're not furnishing your nest at the same time, which I wasn't doing, you end up feeling like everything about it is wrong. And so when my mum died, that really made me realise I hadn't been taking care of myself and I hadn't been more present with myself and my life. And I'd let myself kind of get lost in my job. I'd lost control of myself. Yeah. So my profound sort of moment that I had in India was coming out of the ashram and sitting down to order a meal and realising My mind was so calm, and I've never been that calm.
Gill Moakes 15:20
Oh, so that sounds like a really specific memory can so you say you coming out of the ashram ordering a meal? So is this a really like, literally a moment in time memory that you have?
Tamsin Jardiniere 15:32
Yeah, I came out, I couldn't quite see the value of it all. When I was in the ashram, I was irritated with a lot of stuff. And now I look back, and I realise I was just very distracted. And it takes time for the mind to calm. But the first thing I did when I came out with a group of friends was go out for a meal. And I just couldn't manage to work out what I wanted, my brain was so zen, I didn't really want to think about anything. So I knew that there was something in it, I thought, well, I've never felt this calm. I've never. I never really, yeah, I hadn't really stopped to realise how distracted I was. So that was a kind of holding moment that kind of anchored me into the experience and made me realise I don't want this to be an experience and a phase or a fad that gets forgotten about. And then I go back home. And I start again, and I go up the wrong path for me again, and then I get exhausted, and then I take some time out. So I knew that this was a defining moment that would set me on the next path. And I didn't know what that was. So it actually took me five years from leaving my job in India, to moving to France. And in between that time, those five years, I just used my skills, to take part time work, and to set up my own interior business with a different slant, that it was much more of a kind of counselling approach to not choosing a scheme that you didn't identify with, but putting your heart and soul into your home, I didn't really realise it was time that what I did then was basically the groundwork for what I do now. That was 20 years ago, or 15 years ago, 15 years ago that was and at that point interiors hadn't kind of had that added soul into it, it was or at least I felt that I couldn't reach the clients.
Gill Moakes 17:36
Yeah, I can understand what you mean there, I think it's one of those things. Where were you too want to do that again, today, I could imagine that looking very different for you, and being incredibly well received at the moment. But you're most a bit ahead of your time, probably with that project.
Tamsin Jardiniere 18:00
Maybe Yeah, I think it's a bit of ahead of my time now sort of shot myself in the foot. Because what I was trying to do was to help people to be themselves to make authentic decisions about what they wanted to put in their home. Because I felt often what you would see in magazines was just a commercial scheme. And you if you didn't really know yourself before you got involved with interiors, it ended up not being who you are, and not being aligned to your life story. So really, with that meant, I hadn't quite worked out what the service was because it wasn't about buying stuff. It was about being and connecting with the things that you already had. So it was not a waste of time, I learned so much about myself, I discovered what I felt was really important. And I let go of and that's a piece of advice. A friend said to me at the beginning, I was quite upset about it not really getting off the ground and finding it really difficult to work out how I could reach people. And he just said to me, a friend of mine who had his own building company. And he said, best advice I can give you tams is that sometimes you got to you've just got to let go. You can you can put a chunk of money into something and you can invest in it. And it might not go anywhere, but you just got to cut your losses rather than keep polishing it.
Gill Moakes 19:28
I think that's absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, permission to let go. And also permission to see it differently permission to see that the outcome that you're expecting or hoping for didn't happen, but potentially that the outcome you got was the right outcome because it led to the next step.
Tamsin Jardiniere 19:49
Yeah. And the next step after that was realising I was much more interested in the soul and my own journey of practising yoga, then I wasn't anything else. And so suddenly, I just thought I don't really want to do anything else right now. And I quit everything, and went off to India, and took my yoga teacher training. And I was slightly apprehensive about what that was almost like the the next defining big moment, the first was to leave my job. And then five years later, quit everything again and went to India and went on an intensive yoga teacher training in the Himalayas. And that was then the next defining moment where I made my mind up in India, that I would go to France, I was really craving silence. And I'm curious as to what long a long period of silence would do, inspired really, by my teacher who had been, she'd been a Swami or a monk for 10 years. And she said that after 10 years, she still got really annoyed with people. She didn't know how to stop getting cross until her teachers said, well, meditation. So she took herself off the six months of silent meditation, to this very famous cave, at the source of the Ganga River. From that point onwards, she said she'd lost her anger. And I thought, well, if she can go and sit in a cave for six months in silence, then I can go to France in the middle of nowhere, where my mom had bought her a house for her retirement, and it had been empty. So I thought, well, I just really want to be in silence. And we'll go there. And I'll see what happens. And that's, I came back from India, packed everything up, sold my car, bought another car that would be big enough to take my stuff and took off.
Gill Moakes 21:48
And that was that. Did you move directly to the beautiful home that you have now? In France?
Tamsin Jardiniere 21:56
Yeah, I did. But I moved in part, so I sort of came right had my flat and Brighton. So I rented that out. So I didn't do it move to start off with I came with a backpack, my plants.
Gill Moakes 22:11
Your backpack and your plants. I've just got this brilliant vision of you, you know, turning up with plants under each arm.
Tamsin Jardiniere 22:18
Yeah, I needed to make my home feel like a home. And so I slowly kind of I mean, God, when I look back now, I, I can't believe I did it Gill. You know, the first. So I first arrived in 2012. And that year was kind of magical, because I only spent 10 weeks here. And after the 10 weeks I had at the house. It was really to see if I could do it. So my mum had left the house to my sister And I, she didn't want the house because she had a young family. And I didn't want to sell it because I thought well, I would never buy a house in France. This house was the beginning of the next phase of my mum's life. She had this vision of filling it with family and creating this beautiful garden. And she just bought it and quite soon after she passed away. And so she hadn't really, she done the structural stuff, but not so much anything else. And so I felt really connected to wanting to keep the house to keep her memory alive. It's the one place where I felt really close to her. So that was another reason to be there. And yeah, the first 10 weeks that I'd spent here in 2012 were just to know if I could actually live somewhere this quiet. And I kept driving around and you know, like rural France. It's never anyone on the road. There's no word ever anywhere. The shutters were all shut and I kept thinking oh my god. I lived in Brighton before. Can I do this?
Gill Moakes 23:50
Yeah, that's quite a difference. Isn't it? Bustling? Brighton.
Tamsin Jardiniere 23:55
It's not. It's not completely isolated. Like I've got neighbours around me, but it's there isn't a shop for when I first came here, there wasn't a shop for 10k We've now got two tiny little shops 3k away but you know, there's no bus. We drive everywhere on a hill overlooking a valley of oak forests and vineyards. And it's quiet. I never see anybody. Unless I go out rush hour.
Gill Moakes 24:24
Rush Hour. Where do you say rush hour I've just got this picture of like a horse and cart awesome Tearing past.
Tamsin Jardiniere 24:32
It's not like rush hour anywhere else the rest of the time There's no one on the road. So the first Yeah, the first 10 weeks were really to see if I could do it. And then I spent another three months in an ashram and it wasn't until the following year 2013 Because when I went back to England in the winter of or early early 2013 My sister was really keen to sell the house and so that was the moment where we said, okay, let's, let's do it, let's enable ourselves to have the knives that we want to do. And I didn't feel ready in the slightest, I felt really terrified that I mean, it was huge for me, I was leaving my friends and my family, I didn't speak French, I was going on my own, I'd lived in a flat all my life I've always loved living on one level. And suddenly, I had this big house, it's two square metres an acre of land. I turned up with my car, my backpack, my plants. And I remember after one week, having a bit of a panic attack and thinking shit done.
Gill Moakes 25:46
Yeah, because this is just massive, I can't even imagine I you know, just one small life change is often really tough to navigate. So putting into perspective, you know, these, you know, these kind of five years that we're talking about here in which you've been living working in London, living in a flat in Brighton, you know, having this really kind of girl about town lifestyle, really, to change that take off to India, and then to make this decision to live in complete. In completely rural France. It must have it must have ignited so, so much introspection around who you are and what you really wanted from the rest of your life.
Tamsin Jardiniere 26:43
It did, I wanted it. I think I was not prepared for what it actually was in the slightest. But I felt like I had enough. I felt I had enough gumption, I felt I had enough knowledge of my practice to be able to hold me. And when I say my practice, meditation and yoga, and I think the times it was not easy by any means, you know, I think it was too late. Once I'd realised what I'd done, it was too late to turn back. And I also didn't want to turn back, you know, I knew that. I just had to take the rough with the smooth if I wanted to change my life.
Gill Moakes 27:28
Where did the coverage come from, though, to actually do it? Where did the coverage come from to make the decision? Because because it's the decision making the decision. That's actually the heartbeat, isn't it?
Tamsin Jardiniere 27:41
This didn't come though with the head. Often people say to me, how can you how did you do it, I'd really love to do something similar. For the first time in my life, this was not an idea. And I think sometimes when we're trying to work out what it is we want to do in our lives, we're searching for ideas, or that sounds good that that will make me money, or that this wasn't an idea at all, this was just following one foot after the next and seeing where it led me. I never anticipated that I'd moved to France at all. I just had this desire that I wanted to be in silence, and the house was here. So I wouldn't have bought house in France. But it was here and I wanted to be close to my mom. And I wanted to just appreciate a different life. And also, I think at that age I was everyone else around me was having babies or leading successful lives. Whilst my friends may have been reaching the same sort of questions. They were answering those questions by starting a family, and I wasn't in a relationship. And so the questions came to me, I suppose at the same time, but in a way that they weren't answerable by what was around me. And so the I remember sitting in my flat and just thinking, well, what are you going to do about this? You're going to sit here and feel lonely and miserable? Are you going to pack this stuff up and go on an adventure? Because you might as well go on an adventure, there's nothing else to lose. And that was, that was the really what led me
Gill Moakes 29:17
And what an adventure because you moved to France and have curated the most amazing life and business. Tell us about what that's been like the journey from when you first arrived in France with really kind of you had your practice. So you had your meditation practice and your yoga but you know, you were in a completely alien environment for you really, kind of how did you sculpt that into the life and business you have now?
Tamsin Jardiniere 29:51
Very slowly, and when I looked back, it was very naive. And everything was always just with what I knew I could do at that time, I didn't give myself any pressure. I kept saying to myself, I have got everything I've got, and nothing more. And I can only move at the pace that I can move out. So the very first thing I did when I was in India, before the winter, before people started asking me, what do you, what are you doing? Where are you going, and I thought, I need a business card. And so it was in India before I arrived here that I decided to call, what I was doing was setting up this little friendship tree, I knew that I wanted to turn my mum's house into a place for well being to nurture other people going through transitional phases in their life. So I just called it what it was little French retreat. And all I did was put up a page, online, not a website, it was a business card, and I started a Facebook group. And I had some friends who were teachers. And so I arrived in June, and I decided that I would do a test pilot run in the September Yeah, and run a retreat. And it was a not, you know, low, low price retreat. And I put posters in bakeries in East London. And I put stuff up on Facebook, and I invited everyone I knew. And I had seven people, six people, six people and a teacher. And that was the realisation that what I felt in my heart, I could do, I really could do. The second year, very validating? It was validating Yeah. And it. It brought life to the house in a new way. The second year was very different. Because I think when we're doing things on our own, we don't we don't know all the things about what's going to come along, we have an idea. But often, none of that comes true.
Gill Moakes 31:55
To your point earlier on that something you said earlier about, you know, for the first time really the decision around going to France was it wasn't an idea that you carefully plotted to bring to life was it, it was something about putting one small step in front of the other. So I think you're absolutely right. Often the things where we have the idea first, and then try and work back from that often don't pan out the way we originally planned them.
Tamsin Jardiniere 32:24
No, and I think it is a juggling act. And so it is a mixture of ideas and all the times that I would put an idea on to what I was doing, they never worked. So it was almost like a took my old self into my new world, and kept on trying to bang on that, you know, I don't know how I don't know how else to be. And it took me time to trust that I could let go of ideas. And if I was quiet enough, and I listened enough, then I would really invite what was waiting for me to come in to my life. And that just takes time and confidence in yourself. Knowing that you've got what you need to do for it to be realised. And so it took me a bit of time here to bark up the wrong tree. I mean, from the outside, it might not have looked like I was barking up the wrong tree. But I was just trying different things and seeing what would work in the beginning. I wanted other people to run retreats, and I would host and then I realised that my story was why I was here. And that's really what people were interested in. And it's come slowly, as you know, from us working together.
Gill Moakes 33:42
Absolutely. Yeah.
Tamsin Jardiniere 33:44
Yeah, I've been running a little French retreat for eight, nine years before I started working with you, and you're supporting me on the next vision of what I'm doing. And Only now do I realise that I'm actually really talking about my story. I wasn't talking about it before, in the same way.
Gill Moakes 34:07
That's right. That's right. One thing about you that I find amazing to work with, it's amazingly fulfilling to watch you making decisions for your business because I'm we I coach with you. But you know, at the end of the day, you're the person that makes the decisions and and is growing this beautiful, beautiful Heartlead built business. And one thing that I really admire so much is the level of self trust that you've developed. You spoke to that so beautifully. Just now when you said you know, that you had to. From the outside, maybe it looked like everything was very smooth, but actually, there were lots of pivots and turns and try I'll try this and I'll do that And but all of the time, I believe you trusted yourself to know when you hit on the right thing. And that feels like quite a pattern for you, with your life. And with this journey of parts that lead in a winding way to get you to where you are now, I do think that there's always been something inside you that has trusted that you would get to where you were supposed to be. Does that sound fair?
Tamsin Jardiniere 35:32
It does. And I think there I think when you're trying to find what you really believe is worth your time and energy. There are long periods where it looks like you haven't got your shit together. I think hardest part is not to trust myself, but is to let go of other people's opinions about how I'm may look to be woowoo, or unorganised or floating around or not serious, because so often, we're conditioned, to be productive, and that productivity has to take a recognised framework. And for me, it's very much like the path of being an artist, the sitting back is as important as the being in. And sometimes when you sit back, you kind of have to watch the world around you, and completely let go of it. Because you can't please everyone, you can only please yourself. And that takes time. And it takes reflection. And that's something I've learned to become more confident and comfortable with because I would do it in the early stages, but I would do it with a sense of nervousness, or there would be a lot more doubt around it almost be like, I don't know when money's coming in, I'm just gonna have to sit tight, and just believe that it's all going to work out. And I think halfway through the journey, I remember reading a book or watching something that was very much about keeping your vision in sight and letting go of the details. I stressed a lot about all the details, and it hadn't got me anywhere. And this was really another moment where I thought just keep your focus on your vision, because the rest of it will come. And I let go of being stressed about the bills from that point onwards. And then just focused on the quality of what I wanted to feel like and how I wanted to realise that within the vision of what I was doing.
Gill Moakes 37:38
Thinking about the level of experience that you give to the people who come on retreat with you. Now, I almost feel like that has been a rite of passage to get to a place where you can provide that level of experience. So your own path of letting go letting go of the need to have all the answers, I think that probably has paved the way for the kind of experience that people have when they come to you now, which is utterly transformational.
Tamsin Jardiniere 38:11
Yeah, things take time. They always want to rush things,
Gill Moakes 38:15
Always want to rush things, we always want to know what the outcomes gonna be. We want the crystal ball. And sometimes we need those reminders to be to be right now to be present to experience rather than future tripping into the guarantees of of what's going to happen in the future.
Tamsin Jardiniere 38:36
Yeah, we can't suddenly go from one place in our lives to the next without a period of transformation along the way, as the process and I think when I came here, I was 38 I'm now 48 You know, that's a decade has gone past, and I'm a different person. And I what I'm doing now is not what I was doing at the beginning. In the beginning, when I first came here, it was very much about teaching yoga, and discovering food, yogic food. But my own journey has led me to realise the path of via VEDA, and how that helps people individually, not just in their diet, and their well being but also in their relationships and how they choose work that suits them. And that yoga is a practice that takes time. And so I've added things in that enable people to hold themselves in the hearing now, and to encourage them to bring in that sense of practice in, only the other day actually I was thinking about this because at college at university, I studied ceramics and I kept my studio until I was 27. And I wanted at that point to buy a flat. I couldn't hold My studio and hold down a full time job. And I, I remember sort of having to close the studio up, I felt so upset, and I've kept all the tools and I thought one day I'm gonna go back to it. Well, I started pottery again a month ago. And the first session was a bit wonky. And the second session, it came back, and it didn't come back. Like I thought it would come back, I realised that the period of 20 years between had bought me a sense of attention and awareness, that was much more involved in the experience than it was in making a finished piece. The relationship with how I touch the clay, and how I moved the clay and how I was aware of the sides of the pot being different shapes, and just a completely different experience from when I was 20 years younger. And all I wanted to do was make a finished piece, sell it in a shop and call myself a potter.
Gill Moakes 41:04
That's it. Yeah, to be able to earn the label call. Yeah, absolutely. And I just think that's a great metaphor, that metaphor of that realisation you've had recently, it's really a metaphor, isn't it for your whole life and business in learning to stop that future tripping, letting go of needing to know that outcome again. So and I love that that's reduced down to this metaphor of focusing on the experience and the feel of the clay and being like Uber present in the moment, rather than picturing the finished article.
Tamsin Jardiniere 41:42
Yeah, because what we produce when we're at that point is so much greater than what we could produce if we were just stuck on the final outcome. And that really is the magic place. And it's where so many of us have lost our faith, because we're constantly obsessing about the final product. And the final product could be ourselves of how we define who we are, so that everyone on the outside world can rest at peace. Because no one likes when you don't want you doing.
Gill Moakes 42:10
Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. So that I just want you to say that again, so so that everyone else can be in peace, because so this is so interesting to me, around the beauty and the fulfilment to be found in real authenticity, in really being who you are, and letting go of the part of you that is carefully sculpting itself into something that's acceptable for other people. Talk to me more about that, because I know that that is something that you're incredibly passionate about. Showing up very authentically.
Tamsin Jardiniere 42:54
I think it's quite rare for people to have found that and kept at going through their entire life. It's within us all. But so often, it gets sidelined. That we are normally at a young age, when we have a sense of what we want to do, I always say to people, all the things you do as a child that you love, are all the things that you are. And so if you're confused about who you are, if you go back to when you're a child, and you remember what you love doing, then you know that that's where you found your sense of flow. But somewhere along the line, somebody said, Well, you can't make a living out of that, for that's not wonderful, or that's not worthy, or you know, and so it's that crushing blow that all you were able to do was make people laugh. And that's an honourable living. So somebody's idea of what's honourable and authentic. What often when other people project their own shit onto us. It's not got nothing to do with authenticity is it's got to do with the fact that they're disappointed with their own lives. And so they want someone else to realise something that's going to make them feel better about themselves.
Gill Moakes 44:12
Yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Jardiniere 44:14
So it's getting back to that place of giving yourself permission to be in a space, we don't have to have all the answers. You can let go. You can play, you can find what it means to be in flow, where you're so passionate about what you're doing that you're not thinking about anyone else. You just can't wait to get up in the morning and start again. And for me that always comes I mean what I've learned from my own way of life is it comes from valuing rest and valuing letting go so you know I'm retreat and guiding people with food with movement to purify the mind to purify the body and when you get to that place where suddenly there's no external forces causing tension, then joy starts to bubble up. And you get that sense of, oh, I'm here again, I'm back, I've come back, you know. And that's the place where then the real work can start happening.
Gill Moakes 45:17
So it's almost, that's the preparation work. Getting to that point is the preparation. Okay, I understand that, I can totally see that. Getting to that point is where you suddenly have your blank canvas to introduce exploration of what's next for you, or whatever that looks like. But until you've got rid of those tensions, and those external forces, everything else is going to be coloured by that, right?
Tamsin Jardiniere 45:47
Yeah. And Yoga is a philosophy, for aware of lifestyle that's based on purifying the body to find your purpose. And that it's being in our essence, and being authentic, and being purposeful about our life's meaning that brings us joy. Happiness is neither here nor there, because that comes and goes, you know, we get pulled apart, it doesn't mean so we're not going to have a life. That's not challenging, because that's part of life, you know, we go through ups and downs. But having a life where you feel aligned to your purpose, makes you feel a peace. I think it makes you feel at peace with who you are, and you don't suffer. Fools, or you don't suffer being in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. You just know yourself well enough to make good decisions that feel aligned to who you really are. And one door then opens the next with ease.
Gill Moakes 46:50
And isn't that what we all want, we all want to feel at peace right now with ourselves without feeling like we have to be consciously curating our lives, to suit anything or anyone other than what's already inside us.
Tamsin Jardiniere 47:10
It's hard to do, though, when you're in, you know, sometimes it really helps to take yourself out of your everyday routines, which is why, you know, I host retreats, because it's an immersion into getting into contact with yourself. And it's guided in a way that makes it easy to understand what you can do when you're not in a retreat environment, within your home environment, to help maintain that sense of essence, and let go of the things that aren't helping you get there, and add in the things that you need to put around you to support you to keep on that path. But I think until you take yourself out, sometimes it's really hard. You can spend a lifetime chasing ideas.
Gill Moakes 47:58
Lots of people do.
Tamsin Jardiniere 48:00
Yeah, I think it's chance really that life stops you in your tracks.
Gill Moakes 48:05
Yeah, I think it's chance, but it's also being open to doing something different, doing something that's not expected of you. And sometimes I think that's the hardest thing people find. And that's something that you've found the courage to do through your life is to do the thing that wasn't expected from you. And I think you kind of touched on this earlier that the people who come on your retreats, they want that immersion in your story. They don't just come for the yoga, they don't just come for the Ayurvedic food they come to be with you and to kind of almost I do this with you, too. It's like we want to absorb a bit of that, that courage and self trust in being able to do something unexpected. I think that's what you bring to people.
Tamsin Jardiniere 49:00
I think, because I'm honest about my life. I share a lot of myself on retreat, and more so now with my writing on my newsletter. Thanks for holding my hand. Because I haven't always found it to easy with my words and to be so open on retreat I found it easy, but I certainly see the value now in being able to be much more open about the fact that life is not perfect. I love to chuck an exploitive in every now and then. I'm not this. Things don't always go smoothly. I'm not remotely interested in perfection. And you know, I tell all my guests just don't bother bringing your makeup. Don't worry, no one's gonna see us you can wear a scruffy old khaks for a whole week. I couldn't care about taking pictures for Instagramming In fact, I don't even want to be on that. You know that as well. I've just stopped doing all that nonsense. It has value to some businesses, but it doesn't really hold any value for my own anymore. And it is about just relaxing God, just being really relaxed with who you are. And the last retreat was so lovely, because the guest said that they said, it's so nice to be somewhere where we can be ourselves. And we can say everything that we want to say, and no one's going to judge us. And there's nothing but kindness. And we're all different people, all from different walks of life, just being observed and supported and listened to. And all the fears and the worries come out about you know, I want to do this, but I don't know if I can, and how we can find a path to get to where we want to go with it being in a way that you can realise it. Yeah, in a way that you're gonna realise what it is you want to do in your life. I probably because both parents have died, both my parents have died, that I have a sentiment behind me that is Life's too short. But often we come to the things at life, you know, major life changes, like most of my guests, they're either lost their job, or they are retired, or their kids have left home, or they are in their late 20s. And they're just thinking about what quality they want to put into their work. So there are always major turning points in people's lives. That is why people tend to come on my retreats, because like you said, it's my story that they connect to because it's a real, it's a real story.
Gill Moakes 51:42
Yeah, it's very real. When you share your story, you share every bit of it. The stuff that didn't go right, the stuff that left you feeling scared the stuff that the Oh shit, what have I done moments, you know, you don't ever try and portray some kind of Insta worthy? Maybe even the Eat Pray Love version? You know, it's not it's not that it's the real story. And that's what is compelling.
Tamsin Jardiniere 52:08
I think I struggled in the beginning,
Gill Moakes 52:10
You struggled with what to tell it,
Tamsin Jardiniere 52:12
I struggled in the beginning to be I think, vulnerable because I felt that I had created a business that was around wellbeing. And I was holding space for others. And I didn't feel like I had all the answers. And there was this kind of very uncomfortable, and I do see it out there in the world of well being this kind of Guru complex. And I didn't feel I could own it be that or have the audacity to kind of project it onto others. And I remember sitting with my teacher who's a monk, we were on plastic chairs in the ashram. And he turned around to me said how's it all going? I actually find it a bit difficult Swamiji you know, I'm, I haven't got a I haven't got community around me. I haven't got anyone to phone up and ask how I'm doing it. And I sometimes just feel like I'm not really a real teacher. So he said to me, Well, I haven't got an ashram, the i Phone up. And I've been doing this 25 years. And it took me 12 years to get comfortable with being a Swami. And he said, you just got to be you. Because that's why people come to do yoga with you because you're a real person. And that's what yoga is. I was so grateful for his permission.
Gill Moakes 53:34
Permission for his honesty for his honesty to share that. So if you had to summarise being authentic, what really being authentic is to you what it means for you, as we bring this episode, which I've just enjoyed this conversation with you so much like I always do with all our conversations, but particularly this because I know we're gonna get to share this with other people. How would you sum up what it really does mean to be authentic, and why it's important?
Tamsin Jardiniere 54:03
Well, we've only got one shot at life, and might as well do what you really love than wasted time doing something that's second best. I think that's the absolute crux of everything because you're going to fail, whether you do the best, or you're going to fail at times when you do something that you don't really love. So you might as well just follow what makes you feel alive. And it turns life when we're authentic. It turns life, the whole of your life into an experience in that everything that you do and you touch and you feel and you are has the same feeling you're not compartmentalising your life. When you're authentic, everything has the same quality and things flow When you're authentic, it's like magic. You know, if you trust yourself to just allow life to come to you, the most incredible doors open the most amazing people come your way. But it's having the trust, to take those first steps into discovering what it is that you love to do, and how to become reconnected again with yourself. Because we're only not authentic when we're disconnected. And we've been pulled in too many directions. And we've lost contact with ourselves, and our sense of inner trust. And it's easy to happen with the pace of living, but you can be authentic and live in a fast paced world. It's not like you have to leave everything moved to the middle of nowhere live in the French wilderness, and then you find yourself. I just happen to do that.
Gill Moakes 56:05
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's important too, isn't it that's really important is, you know, what is right for one person and what is authentic and what is what it means to follow one person's passion and purpose will look completely different to what that means for another person. And, and part of that whole self trust thing is trusting that it's okay for that to be different. It's okay, for whatever that means to you to be real.
Tamsin Jardiniere 56:39
Yeah. And it will take the time it takes. And I think the moment you let go, of the pressure that we put on ourselves to be off. So then I see this quite a lot. This is pressure to be authentic pressure to find purpose, whenever we let go of that. And we just allow ourselves some space, it comes so much quicker.
Gill Moakes 57:03
Letting go of those ideas, again.
Tamsin Jardiniere 57:05
Letting go in the ideas of who we are, and not allowing ourselves to be who we really are, because we're afraid of what others might think. And not caring. It's so nice, isn't it when you get to that point in life where you don't give a flying, fuck what anyone else thinks.
Gill Moakes 57:20
Everything changes. And like we said earlier, there is something about this as well, that's a switch. When you embrace who you really are, and find a way to do what you love. Everything becomes so much easier. Like you said the doors start opening the people that come into your life, the complete and utter blurring of different compartments of life, you know, work socialising, family play, everything becomes so fluid. You know, I never ever now have the Sunday night depression over the oncoming Monday morning. Never. And that feels like such a privilege.
Tamsin Jardiniere 58:07
Yeah, you're in control. And it's always possible. And you know, we're talking about things like this on retreat, or guests who say, well, it's okay for you. You're a yogi. Or it's okay for you. Because loads of excuses come out because we're so entangled in our web of life that we can't see how we can unravel it a little bit, but there's always a new beginning.
Gill Moakes 58:32
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, next time someone says that to you, it's okay for you, your Yogi just remind them that well, you should speak to Gill my coach, she can't even do a downward dog, it is not a prerequisite to being who you are doing what you love.
Tamsin Jardiniere 58:53
It Isn't, it does like you say it takes courage. It takes sometimes for things to align for the moment to come. And there are there are certain times in life where moments arise. And I always think you've got to seize them with both hands and go for it.
Gill Moakes 59:09
What a brilliant place to wrap up this episode. times in life where moments just arise and you've got to seize them. That is so so true.
Gill Moakes 59:19
Tam, thank you so much for coming on this week. I have adored this conversation and I know everyone else will if people if that's a really stupid thing to say because yes, people are of course going to want to know more about you and your story where can they find out more rhetorical question because I know the answer. I don't even know why I'm saying it like that as if I'm like trying to this is hilarious because there's me you know, I'm trying to sound like some kind of professional podcaster where can they find out more about you? I know the answer. Anyway, I'm gonna get you to say it anyway.
Tamsin Jardiniere 59:56
They can find me on littleFrenchretreat.com or unfoldingconversations.com but little French retreats really my main home is what I've been doing here in France. Yeah.
Gill Moakes 1:00:09
Perfect. And also your newsletter. I can I just urge all of you listening just to check out Tam's newsletter because it is so much more than a newsletter. It is just so heartfelt, so beautifully written. And I think you'll adore it. So do check that out, although I'll put all the links in the show notes, of course. Tam, thank you so much. And I will speak to you again soon.
Tamsin Jardiniere 1:00:36
Thank you, Gill.
Gill Moakes 1:00:37
You're welcome. Bye for now.
Tamsin Jardiniere 1:00:39
Bye.
Gill Moakes 1:00:43
I hope you enjoyed this episode, and that getting our heads together this week has filled your mind with what's possible. If you love the show, would you do me a massive favour please? Would you leave a five star rating on Apple podcasts? It would really help you put more heads together, reach more ears and expand more minds. Until next week. Bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
