Gill Moakes (00:02.131)
Hi, welcome to Heads Together, how are you?
angela rakis (00:06.168)
I agree, thanks for having me.
Gill Moakes (00:08.465)
Oh my goodness, my pleasure. Thank you for being here. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. Number one, because I am obsessed with the name of your company. And I really want all of my listeners to get to hear the origin story of that. But also because the topic that we're going to talk about today is just so important for business owners, right? It's, you know, this, the topic of business boundaries is something that I think we all struggle to find the seat.
sweet spot with. But before we dive into that I'd love it if you could just tell everyone listening a little bit about yourself and again about that origin of your company name.
angela rakis (00:52.27)
Sure, my name is Angela Rekes. I am the founder of Favorite Daughter LLC, which is a consultancy focused on mid -sized to smaller companies. I do marketing, business development, a lot of just really helping people find a clear path for their project or their business. That's what I do. That's pretty much my day to day. I've owned the company about seven or eight years now. I think I have lost track.
Gill Moakes (01:18.835)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (01:20.59)
And it's called favorite daughter. It's what a mistake really works out. My dad always called me his favorite daughter. I'm the only daughter. So he just really thinks it's fantastic. It's a great dad joke. Classic dad joke. And I really didn't intend on it. Yeah, I didn't intend on it being my company name was going to be sort of the entity behind. I don't even know Angela Riegel's consulting something very simple and.
Gill Moakes (01:30.899)
I'm sorry.
Gill Moakes (01:35.635)
Yup. Classic dad joke.
Gill Moakes (01:47.279)
Yeah.
angela rakis (01:48.846)
I went ahead and I updated LinkedIn. I just kind of was like, it's my new job. But I didn't realize everybody was gonna get a notification. So everyone got the notification, like, hey, I love that, that's really funny, that's amazing. I thought, well, I guess this is the name of my company now. And I actually used that to build my business. I messaged everyone who messaged me, I messaged them directly and said, thanks so much, this is what I'm doing. And that little...
Gill Moakes (02:09.075)
That's brilliant.
angela rakis (02:18.218)
mistake or technology fail really helped me out. So that's where Favorite Daughter comes from.
Gill Moakes (02:23.525)
Wow, I just, that's just amazing. What a fortuitous mistake. Isn't there a lesson in that as well? Because literally, like we all would love to have a reason for people to be messaging us out of, you know, and congratulations and us to be able to open a conversation with them. And for you, it just happened so naturally, so organically. I think that's absolutely brilliant. I love it.
angela rakis (02:30.604)
Yeah.
angela rakis (02:47.566)
Thank you, definitely. It's also a nice reminder that, yeah, we're going to make mistakes or we're going to goof and do these things that you're just not happy with. And it's okay. It's okay. You can figure it out and go to the next step. So that's how that came about.
Gill Moakes (03:06.003)
But it's like always a talking point with your clients as well or with the people that come into your world.
angela rakis (03:12.014)
It is, it is. Even just yesterday I was on the phone with the credit card company because they thought there was some fraud and the woman said what's the name of your company? And then she asked a question. I didn't think that she was asking about my company. She was like, no, no, I really just want to know the story of Favorite Daughter. And I just chuckled. I was like, the customer service person wants to know. So yeah, people always want to know. It helps strike up conversation. I'm still handing out business cards, old school style. I love my...
I'd love to be able to hand it to someone and have them be like, huh, that's interesting. So it's nice. It's a nice way to break the ice with people. My brothers hate it. My brothers don't love it. My one brother's like, I'm not emailing you. I'm not emailing you with that address. Come on. So, yep. It's funny.
Gill Moakes (03:41.573)
I love that.
Gill Moakes (03:48.211)
It really is. I absolutely love it. And so how so you do. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. And the thing is, it does make you stand out. It really does. I yeah. Genius. Genius. But I do love the fact that it actually was.
angela rakis (04:12.654)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (04:14.995)
kind of a mistake. It wasn't really the intention wasn't for that to be the permanent name or whatever. So that's fun. That's very fun story. So in terms of, you know, the kind of clients that you work with now, who do you serve with your work? What kind of business owners do you work with?
angela rakis (04:21.806)
It was not. It was not. Thanks. Thank you.
angela rakis (04:37.742)
Uh, it is a big mix. I my career began in advertising. I worked in ad agencies. I then transitioned to go to culinary school. I'm a big career changer. I'm a believer that the career is never a direct path upward. It's not a corporate ladder as much as we've been taught that it's not linear. So I, I took this, I took a layoff and I said, okay, well, I'm going to go to culinary school and the advice of a friend who loved my cooking. Um,
Gill Moakes (04:54.579)
Yeah, it's not linear at all is it?
angela rakis (05:06.862)
And I was really looking for a way to marry my love of food and hospitality and service with my business background. And the position came open at Whole Foods, which was ideal. It was all of those things. And so I started there. So I've always been really focused on food, that, that industry. But then as the years progressed and I was realizing that it doesn't matter the industry in a lot of ways, it, it matters that the person is trying to accomplish. Right? So if they have a business.
And it could be a retail store. It could be, I think I mentioned once before, I had a client that was a therapist, a psychiatrist who had, you know, 10 therapists in her practice, two offices, and then COVID hit. And she was kind of stuck. Like, how do I, how do I use the services and the skills that I have in this type of environment? I'm not getting referrals from schools. And that's when I realized that, you know, there's, there are people that have similar needs.
Gill Moakes (05:45.523)
Mmm. Yeah.
Gill Moakes (05:58.833)
Mm.
angela rakis (06:04.974)
in various industries. So now I work a lot with, like I said, mid -sized, smaller companies, individuals, people who are excited about either moving their business forward, they dip their toe in and now they're ready to really go full, full steam ahead, or they have a project that it's just, it needs scratching. And they're like, I don't really know what to do. And so I help them with that. That's, that's my focus mostly now. So yeah, that's me.
Gill Moakes (06:23.547)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (06:30.835)
Yeah, you're like, I feel like you're an unstucker. You know, like, when people are stuck, you're the go to person that's going to be like, well, hang on, no, we can work this out. We can do this. And I think when you have that personality, like you have, of really wanting to help people and actually it's, you know, it isn't about what industry they're in. It's about...
angela rakis (06:35.758)
Yeah, yes.
angela rakis (06:47.47)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (06:57.405)
It's about their commitment and excitement for the project that they're doing or the work that they do. But I do think that that lends itself for, or it can be at risk of having low boundaries. Those kind of people who are so, you know, desperate to please. And I know that that's something, and that's why I was so keen to have you on, because you're very open about explaining, you know, why you help people now to put...
really good solid boundaries in place within their business because it wasn't always that way for you, am I right in saying that?
angela rakis (07:33.368)
100 % you're right. And then I think that lack of boundaries, it started in my sort of my corporate world. Right, because it's easy, even if you love your job, you're like, I loved all the career position, the corporate, I'm going to call them corporate positions I had. But I was so willing to give up my time and my space and the hours and the day or can you travel tomorrow?
Gill Moakes (07:49.011)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (07:58.931)
Mm.
angela rakis (08:00.174)
well sure, I'll drop everything or missing birthday parties and missing weddings. But I didn't think anything of it at the time, I just thought this is what you do to continue your career growth. And then when I started and I transitioned to running my own business, I had that same mentality which is I have to hustle, I have to prove, I have to have to have to, and none of those things are actually true. And with that comes, as you're in your own business,
Gill Moakes (08:26.035)
right? It's a story isn't it?
angela rakis (08:30.03)
It is a story and you're convinced of it. Over and over.
Gill Moakes (08:31.363)
story we tell ourselves. Yeah, that you know if we want to be successful. Yeah, exactly.
angela rakis (08:40.59)
Yes, if we want to be successful, these are the, I'll call them sacrifices that we have to make. And sure, there are times when it's busy or you have a season that's busy depending on your work, but to be consistently either trying to prove yourself and it's sort of to what end, to what end? I mean, you're gonna lose your job whether you do it or not. You can lose your job whether you do it or not. So.
Gill Moakes (08:59.507)
Yeah. Yeah.
angela rakis (09:09.198)
So it's just really understanding that. So transitioning into my own business, I really wanted to offer the things that I know. I have all these years of experience and I get really excited when I meet a business owner or entrepreneur or somebody who's just as excited. And then what sometimes happens is it may begin with, can I pick your brain on something? Of course. I mean, at the time I was like, I'll talk to anybody and I will still talk to anybody, but now it's a 30 minute conversation.
Gill Moakes (09:23.633)
Yeah.
angela rakis (09:37.742)
And if you're looking to me for something specific for your business, then I'm going to ask you to answer some questions before we get on the phone. If you're a friend who's just like, Hey, what's going on? I have this thing I'm working on. That's a little different, but again, that's where I draw the boundary, right? Of course I'm going to talk to friends or former colleagues, things like that. But now if someone is reaching out because I was referred to them, they're looking for the kind of consulting that I do then.
Gill Moakes (09:52.263)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
angela rakis (10:07.566)
My expectation is please complete this information. It's going to help me. It's going to help you. It's going to make me understand, oh, we're actually not the right fit. I'm not the right person for you. And I have someone else that I can refer you to that's much better at this. I have a lot of people who come to me for, um, uh, they're, once you start talking, realize they really actually have a money mindset. I'm going to call it issue or concern. That's not my area of expertise, but I have a friend. That's what she does. And it's like, you know, before you come to me,
I think this is the person, so I'm willing to share, pass around people's names. I just don't want to be on the phone for an hour with no purpose, but I've given you an hour worth of my brain power and my advice and my time. So that was the one, it kind of began there. And then the second thing that was happening was just this kind of fear around that money piece, around what I'm.
Gill Moakes (10:47.801)
Absolutely.
Gill Moakes (10:51.687)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (10:56.145)
Mm.
angela rakis (11:03.502)
asking for in exchange for my services. And I think that was a big one. The first, there's two clients, my early part of my business that one, I just basically had to tell him, listen, I don't, you kept counter offering, right? He kept counter offering what I was suggesting, right? So I'd say, this is what it is. This is what you've asked that you need. This is what I can do. And he was insistent on just changing that amount.
Gill Moakes (11:21.167)
Oh, nothing worse. Yeah.
angela rakis (11:33.582)
And I kept thinking about, I ended up sending it to a friend, because I think a big part of owning a business is community and saying, is there something I'm missing here? And she said, yeah, well, he's trying to pay you $10 an hour. And that's too low for your experience, your skill level. Like I couldn't, right? I couldn't even put my head around it until I had the second set of eyes. And I know that I was afraid that it was beginning with my business. I don't have a lot of clients. Something's better than nothing. And that is just really the kiss of death.
Gill Moakes (11:33.617)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (11:46.099)
That's below minimum wage.
Gill Moakes (11:54.035)
Yeah.
angela rakis (12:03.182)
So I had to dig deep and send him a note that says, I'm not able to fulfill what you need at that price. Here's what I recommend, and let me know. And it was so hard to send it. I was like, oh man, I'm basically saying no to a potential client. But I took a deep breath, I did it, and here I am today. And sometimes it's not about the money. I had another one who...
Gill Moakes (12:03.443)
Oh, I totally agree.
Gill Moakes (12:19.643)
Yeah.
angela rakis (12:29.332)
Honestly, it was just the way she was treating myself and my colleague I was working on a project with and my colleague sent an instant message and she said this feels like blood diamonds. This money is not worth it. I think we were just being treated so poorly, meaning we yelled at her, you know, totally we don't know what we're doing. It was just this weird like not okay reminder of being in a big corporate job. And so there's another person I said, Hey,
Gill Moakes (12:48.083)
not okay.
Gill Moakes (12:53.403)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (12:55.726)
You know what, your deposit is not refundable, but we're happy to refund what we've done up to this point. And I also was very clear. This is what I believe is happening for you. Woman to woman, woman business owner, woman business owner. And again, it was really hard. I literally had to write a check to send back the money, but it felt so good because I was like, you know what, this is important. We have our own businesses because we want to be. Yes, it's important.
Gill Moakes (13:01.427)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (13:12.947)
Yeah!
Gill Moakes (13:18.195)
And that's the key thing. It felt so good to do it. And I think you're right, you know, when you work in a corporate environment, you don't have that much control over the boundaries, the rules, the what's acceptable, what isn't acceptable. You have some control, but not a lot. When you have your own business, you have absolute control. You get to say...
what's okay and what isn't okay. And I think at the beginning, when we start out, that's quite tough, isn't it? It's quite tough to kind of realize that and, and make a stand for what we believe in, because you're like, there's this desperation to bring on clients. And that will that if we're not careful, that can just tempt us into taking on wrong fit clients, or clients at too lower price and things like that. And that's where these
angela rakis (14:05.006)
Yes.
angela rakis (14:09.582)
Yes.
angela rakis (14:15.438)
Yes.
Gill Moakes (14:15.783)
boundaries that we have to pull in for ourselves come in. So how did you, like, how did you manage to go from that person who would always over deliver and, you know, how did you get to that point where you were strong enough, like you just said, I just didn't, I said to her, no, you know, that's not okay with us. You know, how did that come about that you got into the habit?
angela rakis (14:41.198)
It takes a lot of practice, you know, and it's almost like I think you get so used to doing things a certain way that you're almost on autopilot and you're going through it or I for me I would get excited if somebody wanted to work with me and then I almost I kind of was blind to what was really going on. It was like ego driven almost. It was like get me.
Gill Moakes (14:46.105)
Yeah.
angela rakis (15:09.358)
getting another client or look at me. I wasn't saying that, but I know that there was a secret voice somewhere being like, yay, you know, and then we would get working and I realized this is not a good fit or this isn't, it's something, you gotta like feel into it almost and just like, something is not right here. So the more I practiced, the better it was, the more I was asked really direct questions of people who were reaching out, the clearer it got to me that I,
Gill Moakes (15:17.169)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (15:29.083)
Yeah.
angela rakis (15:39.086)
I could stand on my own two feet. I could say, you know what, it's gonna be a tough month. I could use another client and I want the right person. Because I want them to be as successful as I am. I want them to feel as excited. I have one client now at the end of every call, she's like, oh man, I have got a list of things to do and I'm super excited about it versus like, what is a lot? You know, this downward feeling of overwhelm. And that's part of my job is to take that overwhelmingness,
Gill Moakes (15:42.449)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (15:49.363)
Yeah, absolutely.
angela rakis (16:08.846)
and help you set it aside and see the clear path. Because it's lonely sometimes to be a business owner, which is another reason why I like working with entrepreneurs, because they don't always have somebody to be there to have a sounding board, to help them through the thought process, to be able to see that path. I can see it clearly, and I can help them get through it. So I hope that answered the question.
Gill Moakes (16:11.793)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (16:24.051)
Absolutely.
Gill Moakes (16:33.565)
feel like as coaches and consultants, that's, yeah, that's like the biggest thing we offer, isn't it? I think it's yes, we offer expertise and that kind of sort of mentorship and advisory. But I think one of the biggest things we offer people is
the sounding board, the person to bounce ideas off someone who gets it and who's invested in our ideas. When we can find that person in a coach or consultant, it's so invaluable for growing your business. I think it's why you and I do what we do. It's so satisfying for us too. But yeah.
angela rakis (17:10.638)
It is. Absolutely it is. And I think one of the scenarios that I got into is because I'm also consider myself a connector. Like I do love meeting and talking to people or saying, Oh, you know, Susie should really talk to Bob. You know, I love doing that. And so another, you know, the boundary was I was doing some work. I'm going to call it for free for people because I was doing a favor and when the favor gets bigger and bigger and.
Gill Moakes (17:27.027)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (17:36.251)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (17:40.526)
You're hearing, oh, we're gonna take care of this, we're gonna take care of you, we're in this together. And that's where this idea of good vibes don't pay the bills. You can feel, because that's the other side of it, you can still feel this connection. This is exciting, I'm just gonna do this for them because it's not that hard, but I'm gonna connect them to all the right people. And then when it comes down to it, you don't get paid. Because you don't have a contract in place, and you can't pay those. And I own a lot of that, right? It's like the...
Gill Moakes (17:49.395)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (18:01.171)
You don't get paid and you can't pay the bills. Right.
Gill Moakes (18:08.273)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (18:09.262)
did you have a contract in place? Did you have an agreement? Were you really clear on your own expectations? Because you can't expect the other person to do it for you. And that was another mistake of mine at the beginning, which was, oh, what's the big deal? Or, oh, we'll figure that out later. That all sounds really nice for if I was in a barter economy, be fine. But I need some, I need to pay bills. This is the reality of it. So I think.
Gill Moakes (18:18.107)
Right.
Gill Moakes (18:28.595)
I'll be fine.
angela rakis (18:38.606)
owning your own sort of weak spot or I don't really call it weak spot, your own place where you're just, there's a discomfort. So I could have in that particular scenario said right away, Hey, okay, what's, this is what I'm going to do. What are you going to do? And how are we going to be compensated for this? It's not that hard when I say it to you right now, but sometimes it was hard to be, am I doing a favor or is this part of my business? How much time am I spending on this little favor?
Gill Moakes (18:46.619)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (18:56.391)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (19:06.963)
such a hard distinction. Yeah, because when it is when it begins as a favor, it's how far do you go with that? And when do you have that conversation? Everything gets all kind of complicated. Whereas if you're really transparent and clear from the outset about what you do and don't do, in terms of a barter or of a, you know, a favor or whatever, it just makes it so much easier down the line, doesn't it? They're like,
angela rakis (19:30.862)
It does, it absolutely does.
Gill Moakes (19:33.043)
All of this is just for people pleasers and as a recovering people pleaser myself, I can totally identify with this, but the people pleaser, this stuff is really hard because I think I remember when I started my first business as a virtual assistant, I would end up over delivering to such a ridiculous degree. I was almost burnt out and not because I was working for some...
angela rakis (19:38.606)
you
angela rakis (19:43.406)
It is.
Gill Moakes (20:01.139)
anyone particularly unreasonable at that point, but because I was so desperate for them to think I was the best thing since sliced bread. Like I just wanted them to think and tell me all the time how absolutely amazing I was and how much I was so much better than any other VA they'd ever worked with in their entire lives and and I would thrive on all of that, but it just left me so burnt out and and I don't think it...
angela rakis (20:10.062)
Yes!
Gill Moakes (20:30.483)
And also, I think thinking of, you know, one kind in particular, I remember it nothing would be enough either. So I would be over delivering, and then they would expect that as the norm, and then add a layer on of expectation. And I just remember that time as being very exhausting. And it's, and it's definitely taught me so much about boundaries in the business that I have now.
angela rakis (20:44.494)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
angela rakis (20:52.942)
Right, yeah.
angela rakis (20:57.358)
Yeah, I was and I was and I still have those tendencies. I mean, that's the thing is I think with acknowledge them and also know that they creep up. It's nice to hear people be like, Oh my gosh, you're amazing. That's fantastic. Yeah, so I remember being especially with with my corporate work was really like, I'm the good one. I do the things. Just, you know, almost like having to.
Gill Moakes (21:04.915)
Yeah, it, right? It is, yeah.
angela rakis (21:24.842)
People are like in a cult and they have to deprogram. I was like, I needed to detox from that for a little while after just, I know I want to start a business. Yeah. And I need to really, uh, really felt, and when I have friends who are laid off or their position is eliminated, whatever it is, my first thing to them is always congratulations. Even though when they're upset because it's a chance to just stop.
Gill Moakes (21:30.771)
Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.
angela rakis (21:52.078)
and say, okay, what is it that I loved about this work? And what is it that I really absolutely faked loving about this work? And that helps kind of, I don't know, change your perspective. So I don't know if I answered the question of how I did it. It was just practice and it was really being discerning about each client trying to have some systems in place that help me just think through, yeah, I can envision working with this person. I kind of see where they want to go with it.
Gill Moakes (21:52.595)
Ugh.
Gill Moakes (21:58.993)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (22:20.014)
You know, if there's a client that it's hard to schedule meetings with them, sometimes that's hard for me too. I live by the calendar. So it's like, gosh, how do I, how do I, I really want to work with this person, but they're slightly disorganized. So, you know, I got Calendly, you know, the calendar links so people can, but I was doing all that myself before and it's like, okay, you know what? Here's a way to ensure that the person takes accountability and ownership of what we're doing here. And so I found little tools along the way that helped me with that.
Gill Moakes (22:27.079)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (22:45.619)
Mm.
angela rakis (22:49.688)
boundary and also potentially help the client realize like we're going to be in this relationship. This is what I expect of you and here's what I'm going to do for my part. I think that helps.
Gill Moakes (22:59.635)
I think you're right. I think also there's something quite attractive in someone who's confident enough to have some boundaries in place. I think it attracts clients. I don't think it repels them. You know how small children always seem to thrive better if they've got strong boundaries? I think it's something to do with that feeling of
angela rakis (23:22.67)
Right, right.
Gill Moakes (23:28.467)
feeling safe, feeling, okay, here's someone who's gonna keep me safe, gonna keep me on task and I trust in that. Yeah. Yes, and dogs, exactly. Kids, pets, clients.
angela rakis (23:30.926)
Yes.
angela rakis (23:36.462)
Yeah, same with dogs. Same idea. Kids, pets, you know, it's like they want to know, okay, we're going to eat. We're going to eat at five o 'clock. Like that's the yeah, you know, and I think it's so easy when we have our own business where, you know, desperate for clients and not desperate. It's not always desperation. Like, oh my gosh, you need the money. Sometimes it is. It was like, try to convince yourself that you can do the job.
because you've always had to convince other people. Now you're counting on yourself. And to me, that's the freedom of it. That's the beauty of it is to say, this is how I run my business like this. Am I going to take advice from others? Of course. Am I going to look and see what other people are doing? Absolutely. But this is how I want to run it. I want to do it this way. And I don't have this. I was taking meetings all day and night, right? I had to figure that out. I'm like, I'm not, my brain is not functioning after a certain hour.
Gill Moakes (24:10.833)
Mm.
angela rakis (24:33.166)
not that it's not functioning, but it's just all day. So I have one client and because they work day jobs, we meet in the evenings once a week. That's the only, like, if you ever look at my calendar, time slot that's open, it's for them. And I was willing to do that because of the type of work we're doing. But it even comes down to that, like, how early or late am I starting my day? When's my best energy? When are they going to get the best out of me versus they're going to get tired? Angela is like,
Gill Moakes (24:46.545)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (25:01.518)
I just have to do this because it's a client.
Gill Moakes (25:02.963)
Clients deserve, our clients deserve the best version of us, don't they? Which is another thing that's so important. And I do think so, so there's a couple of things have come up for me though. One is that I think for me, charging my worth, making sure I'm charging a premium price for a premium service means that I can have my boundaries a little looser if I want to. So in other words, if I'm charging a client,
angela rakis (25:08.622)
100%.
Yeah.
angela rakis (25:30.318)
Uh huh.
Gill Moakes (25:32.275)
a premium price to hire me as their coach, then I feel I have room to not over deliver but deliver to a high standard. So that helps that people please a part of me. But it means that I don't have the resentment. It means that I can deliver really generously to that client, but without feeling like it's treading on my own boundaries. So I think there's something tied up with the pricing in there as well, isn't there?
angela rakis (25:46.286)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (26:00.595)
And it definitely comes down to the clients, you know, the kind of clients you work with is so important always.
angela rakis (26:01.422)
I think so too, yes.
angela rakis (26:05.966)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (26:11.534)
Yeah. And I think you used an important word there, resentment, because the thing is, you're the one that's going to be resentful when you feel like your time is wasted or that your energy is sucked out or I'm not getting paid enough for this kind of whatever we're doing here. And it's you that's going to feel resentful, right? They're going to just, for the most part, you can't control their feeling. They're just going be like, Oh, this is great. I'm getting all this, you know, added value from this person and you're feeling the reason.
Gill Moakes (26:15.537)
Mmm.
Gill Moakes (26:20.529)
Right.
Gill Moakes (26:27.057)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (26:32.147)
Definitely.
Gill Moakes (26:37.107)
Yeah, oh they're happy.
angela rakis (26:40.334)
Yeah, they're happy and you're feeling resentful and you're feeling like, why did I do this? And this is so hard. And you know, all those, all those things will come up. So I feel like if you're clear in the beginning, here's my expectation. What is your expectation? Let's talk this through. Um, and it is still one of the places that I often struggle by meeting a new person. I'm like, Oh, I'm so excited to work with them. And. Oh gosh, I hope they can afford me. You know, it's like that. And I start projecting my own things onto them. Right.
Gill Moakes (26:44.529)
Hmm.
Gill Moakes (27:06.419)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that kind of, yes, that little bit comes into your head of like, I don't want to put them off in any way, shape or form, because I know I can help them. And I'm excited to work with them, because there's someone who I think is gonna be really fun to work with. So I don't want to put them off in any way, shape or form. And those then those old people pleasing tendencies can creep in. And I don't care how long you've been in business. I think if you are a people pleaser, you're always going to have those tendencies.
angela rakis (27:09.678)
you
angela rakis (27:16.078)
Right.
angela rakis (27:23.918)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
angela rakis (27:31.262)
Absolutely.
Gill Moakes (27:36.723)
You know, they just, every now and then they show their head. Which is why boundaries are so important.
angela rakis (27:42.378)
Yeah, we've been trained that way. So that's what, yeah, they're much more, I make it letters, they're more important for people like us. A lot of people please, if you're not a people pleaser, you're at built in boundaries. You're like, okay, you're fine. It's actually there for the rest of us.
Gill Moakes (27:52.719)
Yes, I think it's true. You're fine, you're fine, your boundaries are naturally there. Yeah, it's people pleasers like us that need this. Definitely, definitely.
angela rakis (28:05.966)
We need it. Yeah. And it really was a wake up call. The one, the one particular, um, you know, doing favors. So it was a real wake up call for me. It was like how almost like maybe I wasn't even treating my business as a business. Like this is a business is how I pay my bills. I don't do anything else. Right? Like this is what I do. I, there's no income from a spouse. There's no, there's no other stuff. It's this. So I felt like you're running a,
Gill Moakes (28:20.721)
Ah.
Mmm.
angela rakis (28:34.35)
you're running a freaking business here. What are you doing? Like I had to almost like snap myself out of it. And I was, I, I, I know I was kind of, it was people pleasing. It was like this allure of like, Oh, look who I'm getting to work with and do and look how I've helped them. And we really did a lot of really cool stuff and you know, got paid nothing. And so it was like, what are you doing? It would have been different had it been a, like we talked to, we've talked before about like those passion projects like,
a school, a non -profit, I think I was really like making social change or something, but I wasn't. It was a product. So it's like I was doing all that.
Gill Moakes (29:05.203)
Sure.
Gill Moakes (29:14.579)
Yeah, it was an ideal client had they paid.
angela rakis (29:20.91)
Exactly, exactly. So that's why they're so important and to be really clear in the beginning, right? We said that. And then also as you're working to reassess, don't be afraid to say, how are things going here? Where are we with this process? And that way you're getting feedback, you're helping give them some feedback and it's a little bit more routine versus again, getting to the end of a project or yeah, get six months into something and you haven't really had a good talk.
Gill Moakes (29:27.219)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gill Moakes (29:42.547)
That's a great tip.
angela rakis (29:49.966)
with the client. So take that moment, how are things going? How are you feeling? Even at the end of some calls, I'll say how, how did this work out? You're feeling good, you know, like really checking in with people and really listening because they're not always going to tell you what they're really feeling, right? So it's like really listening and say, well, here's what I'm reflect back to them and just do those things, make that part of your habit. And I think that's a big thing I learned as well is what I'm, this is a business.
Gill Moakes (29:59.867)
Mmm.
Gill Moakes (30:07.443)
Bye.
angela rakis (30:16.814)
And two, it's on me to keep checking in and making sure, because they may not do it.
Gill Moakes (30:22.451)
They may not offer it up freely, that feedback. And also I think this again for people pleasers, you know, it's important to you to get the feedback. We know that about ourselves. We want to know we're doing a good job. We want to know that our customers and our clients are happy and satisfied. So maybe getting, like you say, I think it's a really good tip to get in the habit of checking in, you know, at certain intervals in a client engagement to keep checking in.
How's everything going? Does anything need to change? Could anything be better? And then you can get to kind of reset those boundaries, can't you? So that it's working for you both always. I love that. That's a good tip, definitely. So in terms of your own boundaries for your business that you've worked so hard to put in place.
angela rakis (30:56.686)
Yes.
angela rakis (31:04.43)
Yep, absolutely.
Thanks.
Gill Moakes (31:19.347)
What do you think's been the hardest thing to change?
angela rakis (31:24.878)
That's a good question. The hardest thing to change is, oh gosh, how do I put it? It's the idea that I have to do it all for them. Meaning, well, if, you know, I have to do that, they don't know, or it's like almost like taking more ownership of their business than I need to own. And this used to happen at,
Gill Moakes (31:53.139)
than you ever could, than you ever could. Yeah.
angela rakis (31:53.902)
Again, all my corporate jobs, right? I never could, right? And I would, working, and I was like, well, yes, I could take on that project. Or I could, you know, as like, without thoughts, I think really just knowing that I have a role to play here, you have a role to play here, then together we're gonna move forward versus me just jumping in and doing. I'm good at being the doer, you know, and like, let's just, but it's, if they're gonna own a business, they too have to, um,
Gill Moakes (32:12.667)
Mm.
angela rakis (32:22.242)
own those pieces of the business. I have plenty of clients that they don't want to deal with the financial piece. And it's like, yeah, and you're gonna need to I know it's the one that you don't like marketing and all these other things are super fun. But if we don't know, you know, about your basic financials, that's gonna be you're not going to grow the way you want to. So I think, but I can't be the one to create your budget for you. Like I need you to own that and know it. So I think there's something there. I think that was one really just Yeah.
Gill Moakes (32:31.379)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gill Moakes (32:40.787)
Mm -hmm.
Gill Moakes (32:47.699)
and I think.
Yeah, I can so see that and resonate with that. And I think it's probably one of the biggest lessons any coach or consultant has to own is that you or has to learn is that we don't own the client's outcome. Only they can ever own that. You know, we can give them the best coaching, the best advice, you know, the best instruction in the world, but we can't own the outcome they get.
angela rakis (33:06.606)
That's right.
Yes, that is another heart.
Gill Moakes (33:19.091)
and it's hard because we want the good outcome for them so badly. Sometimes we want to take on as much responsibility for it as we can. In fact, you know, in fact, don't even you look at it. I'll just do it all because I really want you to get the right result. So, yeah, yeah, I get that.
angela rakis (33:19.918)
That's right.
angela rakis (33:31.15)
Yeah. Yeah. I want you to do this right. Yeah, for sure. I'd say that's one and the other one again is around the this is what it costs to work with me. I think that's, that's a boundary to right, like, it's the laying it out. And I still struggle with that. And I think it's because I do work with some people who are starting up their business or project. And so I will feel a sense of responsibility to
Gill Moakes (33:47.155)
Yeah, it certainly is.
Gill Moakes (33:55.633)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (34:00.118)
lower my price or something like that. So that's another place where I have to I work on that every single time. It's like, how am I going to present this and what do they need for me? I have these, this variety of offerings and they can choose this or this. These are the two ways. And that's been another one that I really, and I, that goes back to what we said earlier, which is be real clear on what you're going to do for them and what your expectations for them to meet you there. Right. Cause I've had, I've had a few times people like,
Gill Moakes (34:05.841)
Mmm.
Gill Moakes (34:15.187)
Yeah. That's right.
angela rakis (34:29.55)
Well, where's my business plan? Well, I'm not writing your business plan. On the next call, let's sit down and go through this section of your business plan. Like each, you know, this is your business. If you don't know the ins and outs of your business plan, if that's what you need, it's not going to help me for me to just write it and hand it over. That's not a business plan.
Gill Moakes (34:37.829)
That's right.
Gill Moakes (34:47.507)
Yeah, it will be completely meaningless. Yeah, absolutely. They need to be as it I think it's funny, you know, I've seen over the years, sometimes there will be the people who come along who really expect you to be more invested in their business than they are. And that's a huge red flag. That's a huge red flag. You know, we the best clients are the ones who want to partner with you and work with you to get the results.
angela rakis (34:50.574)
and completely meaningless. So.
angela rakis (35:04.782)
Yes.
Mm -hmm. Yep, yep.
Gill Moakes (35:17.363)
but they still retain the ownership of the outcomes.
angela rakis (35:18.158)
Yes.
angela rakis (35:21.774)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. There's something else about just, um, the idea that, uh, I think that as an entrepreneur, you come into a little bit of this, that fear, whether it's fear of money, fear of success, whatever, there's all these fears that people have, but sometimes that's what I'll come up against. And I do have to push a little bit and say, well, wait a minute. What, why are we not doing this thing? Let's say, you know, approaching this store to sell your product, whatever it is. Well, I'm just not ready for that. Are you not ready or.
Gill Moakes (35:23.057)
Mmm. Mmm.
Gill Moakes (35:47.987)
Mm. Mm.
angela rakis (35:51.694)
I use myself as an example when I had a website built, so this was seven, eight years ago, I refused to hit publish on the website because I was like, there's probably some mistakes, there's this, there's that, and I had a dear friend who said, you are not Amazon, 50 ,000 people aren't showing up to your website tomorrow. Hit publish, and I was so...
Gill Moakes (36:09.219)
Absolutely. Oh, Angela, that's so funny because that's so common. It's almost like, you know, people are so scared to publish anything and then there's this crushing realization that, yeah, probably no one's gonna see it for about six months. Till you tell anyone it's there, no one's stumbling upon it. We wish.
angela rakis (36:22.092)
Yes.
Yeah, until you tell people it exists, I don't think anyone's stumbling on this website. And so I launched, yeah, I hit publish, I found four typos, I went in, I fixed the typos, nobody said Angela's clearly not that, yeah, she's not that bright, she posted a website with three typos. But I needed that, and again, that was with a friend when I said we need community, we need some community there to help you.
Gill Moakes (36:39.195)
No one died. It was all good.
Gill Moakes (36:45.925)
Right? Yeah.
angela rakis (36:54.606)
guide you and help you get out of your own way. And that was the thing. It was like I needed to be out of my own way. I was in the car actually as a matter of fact and I called the person who was helping my website. I'm like hit publish and she was like, oh thank goodness. I said yeah, sorry. It took me a minute but I needed that little kick in the butt. So I got it.
Gill Moakes (36:58.419)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (37:07.603)
At last! Yeah!
Gill Moakes (37:13.619)
You know what, you're so right about community though. It's like, I feel that, and I'm someone who really believes that we don't need validation, we don't need to keep constantly craving validation all the time, but having someone in your corner who knows you really well that you can go to and just say, look, am I being unreasonable here? You know, like that example that you gave earlier.
with that guy who kept trying to negotiate, just having someone that you can go to say, am I being unreasonable or you know, am I reading this wrong or am I? God, so valuable, isn't it? And having, you know, I know, I have a wonderful network of women around me and I don't think I could, I couldn't grow my business the way I do and the way I have without that. No way could I do it on my own. So valuable. Yeah.
angela rakis (37:43.502)
Yes.
angela rakis (37:52.172)
Mm -hmm.
angela rakis (38:06.382)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a quote somewhere. So something like, you we weren't meant to go it alone. So I don't know who it is. I don't know what it's attributed to, but it's, it's, we weren't meant to go it alone. So having that, and I don't know how that necessarily ties into boundaries, but I think it kind of does because it's sort of helping you have someone kind of reflect back like, here's what I'm seeing going on here. Are you, you know, and that it does help you build that.
Gill Moakes (38:15.853)
Right.
Gill Moakes (38:33.139)
Yes!
angela rakis (38:34.296)
that muscle of boundaries of like, okay, yeah. And then, because it is on you again, to go back to that client or that person and say, hey, here's what's going on. Here's what I see. You know, we're gonna stop this right here. And this is how you just make a change. Yeah. It's fun though.
Gill Moakes (38:38.227)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (38:46.023)
Let's make a change. Yeah.
Exactly. Oh, I could I could talk about this topic all day, because I feel like you and I are quite similar. I think we're quite similar, like we're obsessed with our clients and in a way sometimes to our detriment if we're not careful. So it's something like that people like you and I have to be really careful of all the time. So Angela, for anyone who's listening, who wants to find out more about you about what you do, your business, where can they connect with you?
angela rakis (38:55.726)
Yeah.
angela rakis (39:03.82)
Right.
angela rakis (39:19.022)
Yes, they can find me on LinkedIn, either Angela Rakus or FavoriteDaughterLLC. They can find me on Instagram. It's just Angrakus, A -N -G -R -A -K -S. It's a mix of business and food and fun things, travel. And then email me, Angela at FavoriteDaughterLLC .com. You can find me all over the place.
Gill Moakes (39:19.315)
Where do you hang out online?
Gill Moakes (39:24.435)
Okay?
Gill Moakes (39:36.371)
All the good stuff.
Gill Moakes (39:42.643)
Perfect. And I will put all of those links in the show notes, of course. Well, it's been real pleasure to talk to you today. I think people will have got such a lot from this because I think we're not alone in this, you know, our people pleasing ways and our need to have these boundaries in our business. So I really appreciate this conversation today. Thank you so much for coming on.
angela rakis (39:47.022)
Thank you.
angela rakis (40:08.494)
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to do it again.
Gill Moakes (40:12.051)
Yes, definitely. Okay, I'll catch you soon. Bye for now.
